WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby Egaladeist » Tue May 21, 2013 6:15 am

The question is ...

whether you believe in a god or some version of a god...or no god...

does justice exist?

if justice is a man-made construct, fashioned over time, to create a social order, whereby we can live together in packs, with reasonable sanity, then...morality is merely in the eye of the beholder...if a man can do as he pleases while avoiding the consequences of that behaviour and escape any form of punishment in life and in death, then there is no ' right and wrong '...no justice...murder or any other crime is merely socially unacceptable behaviour and has no moral statement...
as a man-made social construct morality can change at the will of the social order...therefore it has no existence as something other than whatever we decide it be...if we decided that it was acceptable to kill then we would be right in the eyes of the social order...

and this at face value appears to be true...

as different societies have different morality, and time changes a social morality from generations...

however..if morality exists as a thing, apart from man...then we are beholden to it, and cannot escape it, in life or death. If we id not create it, and do not control it, then it is unavoidable...and that would stand to reason that a man who avoids punishment in life cannot escape it in death.

Either morality is a man-made construct, that has no existence apart from whatever man decides it to be...or...it exists apart from man as a thing onto itself that we cannot avoid.

If the former then justice cannot exist, and people like Hitler or Adi Amin, did nothing morally wrong, because morality is whatever a society dictates it to be...

so a rational man must, by necessity, come to the conclusion that this cannot be the case and that morality must exist as a thing onto itself...

so whether there is a god or not...sanity dictates that there must be an order...and that order includes a moral code that demands justice that is beyond our control.

IMO :D
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby chaosclown » Wed May 22, 2013 4:02 am

I can't seem to ever find a good explanation of God to non believers. Maybe because I am too young to truly understand the relationship. I find myself just saying he exist and that is all there is to know. I haven't been through many trials or tribulations. I haven't yet experienced "life". I am blessed or I would like to think so. I really don't know. But I cling to this faith, day in and day out. I am still a virgin because of my faith. I am not easily influenced and peer pressure does not seemto bother me much. I don't care for certain secular things. But is that a product of my faith? I don't know. I was raised in this faith. So it is all I know. There are many times I question this faith. But I know at times I wouldnt' be who I am today without it. Its my faith that keeps me sane in this insane world. I assume God is good, because he has been good to me! Now I just need to hold up my end of the bargain!
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby DaFoxx » Wed May 22, 2013 12:29 pm

just to re-iterate
I am not knocking those that DO subscribe to any form of faith, just so long as they keep it to themselves and do not try and push their way on to others
but, I am interested in asking the core question from the thread - why DO we accept god as good ? - when we only ever see people saying things are good so god is good, but never see the same people saying life is pants so god is pants, which would be the logical extension to primary argument generated by said people

hoewever, I also stated at start that maybe the devil [ god anti-matter ] is the real driving force, as what we perceive as evil is everywhere, yet good is rare, so maybe the original power brokers - shamen / druid / witch doctor / tribal leader / politician - got it mixed up, and it is the devil who is omnipotent, but as every early civilisation says that their god is all seeing it would suppose they meant that their god / good is omnipotent, I am merely pointing out that BAD appears to be everywhere

I do not have a faith, and have lived a fairly decent life, marred only by the complete and total destruction of everything I had worked for due to a single accident that caused loss of house / bike / car / job / marriage / leg - it goes on a bit this list :P - all topped off with the death of my father, and I still do not understand how anyone can put it all in the lap of a.n.other and hope / pray it will all go away

I have a few years of standard working life left, will never get another home, can see no end to the continuing misery of my daily existance, yet will still help others if I can, and also drop in here and force my drivel on you all too :mrgreen: I also refuse to be cowtowed by circumstance, will keep struggling, when there is now no real hope of EVER getting away from the shit tip my life now is - one debt will take 55 years to clear :shock: and I will work to do what I can so my little girl can have some chance at making her way in life with some hope

so basically, the main questuion was just to ask about the apparent polarization of god = good + omnipresence v devil = bad + singularity
when everywhere we look it seems to be a reversal

DAMN - you may now see why I am also known as Rambler IRL on bike rallies :hysterical: and all this without a beer in sight

it is actually close on 8 months since I managed a trip out to have a drink, but that was all posted about too, messy weekend too :)
Beware of Geeks bearing GIF's :mrgreen:
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby dinowuff » Wed May 22, 2013 5:58 pm

So I ask if faith is good, Egg Man asks if Justice exists. Main topic asks if God is good or evil.

This topic brings a murky problem into specific relief. Does God exist?
Morality, Justice, Faith, Good and Evil…

Our young friend chaosclown believes that God exists and that his values are based on the teachings of God, i.e., his faith.

Rapier57 is at a point beyond our young clown whereas unlike chaosclown, Rapier is further down the road. Been around the block once or twice – if you will.

I think Raiper57 nailed it with “Being conscious, good or evil are a result of our choices, our free will. While dark is the absence of light, evil isn't the absence of good. Good or evil is chosen by our conscious exercise of free will. We usually know the difference”.

As is my impediment way… Fight, Fuck, or Flee. We know the difference because it is engraved in our DNA.
If you tell me that God forced a few amino acids to form the first protein that became the building blocks of life here on Earth. Great! But our survival and accomplishments as Homo sapiens have nothing to do with the definitions of good and evil. Like I said: Fight, Fuck, or Flee… Those are survival instincts that every being possesses.
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby Egaladeist » Thu May 23, 2013 10:26 pm

So I ask if faith is good, Egg Man asks if Justice exists. Main topic asks if God is good or evil.


But the whole concept is dependent upon the existence of justice. God, good, evil, without justice is meaningless. If there is a god, or...a moral order to things...then that morality must be enforced...if it's not enforced then...there would be no point to a god at all, if god is incapable of that enforcement.

The whole concept of religion is that good will be rewarded and evil will be punished...that in the end it'll all work out, and justice will be served.

So...lets say a man is capable of evil, and goes through life committing evil, without consequence, and/or dies before any justice can be applied...in death he escapes his life. Escapes all punishment. If this is the case, that if we cannot apply justice here in this life and death is an escape.. then...even if there is a god, that god's existence would be pointless...as god would be be neither able to reward good or punish evil.

If that's the case, then we might as well do whatever we want, whenever we want, as long as we can avoid getting caught in this life. As death provides an escape. As justice cannot be served. ;)

Morality without justice is meaningless...god without the ability to enforce justice is pointless.
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby Egaladeist » Fri May 24, 2013 1:26 pm

The 2 things that most religions agree with is that god set things in motion...and that god rewards good and punishes evil. Without the ability to enforce the latter, god became pointless.
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby Egaladeist » Fri May 24, 2013 1:39 pm

There is no such thing as evil...it doesn't exist as a thing onto itself. Evil comes into existence only when something is not right. Like a wagon with a broken wheel. The wagon is good when it is in working order, it becomes capable of evil only when it's broken. Everything, including god, if god exists, is good, as long as it is in good working order.

Evil is the consequence of something good being broken, not being in good working order. If nothing is broken evil has no way to come into existence.
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