WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby James » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:24 pm

My own testing and observation of God has proven Him good.

Nothing I can use to prove God to anyone else, but it's sufficient proof to me.

My answer's short and sweet this time. :mrgreen:
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby Moxnix » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:53 am

I don't believe God is either good or evil, but both. The bible says tha God is every thing. OK, I believe that. All good and all evil comes from him.

Its like a small child playing with an ant hill. He will crush some and help others for the flimsiest of reason, his own intertainment.

So what can you do...........nothing.
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby romanticcowboy » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:07 am

DaFoxx wrote:Why Do we always assume / state that god is good ?

if she were good, why is there so much pain, misery, disease, warfare going on, on this, her creation ?

I suggest god is evil / indifferent
and that the entity we call 'the devil' is, in actual fact, the good guy ..............

god is omnipotent, she gets everywhere, at all times
the devil is just a guy, doing what he can

might just explain why evil gets eveywhere
and why good is so rare ???

thoughts :P :)

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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby dinowuff » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:44 pm

I don't know about God being Good and or Evil, but I do know she sure does have a quirky sense of humor
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby keezel » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:13 pm

I don't believe God is either good or evil, but both. The bible says tha God is every thing. OK, I believe that. All good and all evil comes from him.


I've heard evil defined as "the absence of good". Rather than being its own thing, it's actually the simple absence of another, like light and darkness. "Dark" is not a substance, but rather how we define the absence of light.

Just food for thought.

I don't know about God being Good and or Evil, but I do know she sure does have a quirky sense of humor


I lol'd. :P
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby DaFoxx » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:15 am

DaFoxx wrote:Why Do we always assume / state that god is good ?

if she were good, why is there so much pain, misery, disease, warfare going on, on this, her creation ?

I suggest god is evil / indifferent
and that the entity we call 'the devil' is, in actual fact, the good guy ..............

god is omnipotent, she gets everywhere, at all times
the devil is just a guy, doing what he can

might just explain why evil gets eveywhere
and why good is so rare ???

thoughts :P :)


just to bump this thread, as I just had a quick look through
still see no reason to even think that ANY god / supreme being exists
and am now firmly of the belief of Richard Dawkins
that without religion the world would be full of good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things, because the only way to get good people to do evil things is with religion
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby DaFoxx » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:43 pm

cower at the power of a thread bump by Foxxy :D

FOUR MONTHS
an not a sniff :P

anyone fancy adding to this one now ??
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby keezel » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:05 pm

I just had a quick look through
still see no reason to even think that ANY god / supreme being exists


Might be worthwhile to debate that point for awhile before getting into whether or not such a being is good.



There are a bunch of formal arguments for and against the existence of God.

Here's a list of arguments "for": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_ ... nce_of_God . My favorites are the moral argument and teleological argument, but I can find relevance in a couple others.

The moral argument in its most basic form is this:

1) Some aspect of Morality (e.g., its objective force) is observed. (Moral realism)
2) Belief in God provides a better explanation of this feature than various alternatives.
3) Therefore, to the extent that (1) is accepted, belief in God is preferable to these alternatives.

My belief is that the concept of morality (right vs wrong) should not exist if not based on something objective. Otherwise, there's no point. I want to get into that first, then come back to the argument above.

There are a couple of different non-objective theories of morality.

One example is utilitarianism. It argues that whatever is best for the greater good of humanity is moral. In most cases this holds water. If a few must suffer for the good of the rest, then it's not immoral. If a few suffer needlessly, however, it would be considered immoral. It only starts to break down in extreme examples. For example, when the Romans forced slaves to battle/wound/kill each other for the entertainment of the masses, it could be argued that the "units of pleasure" of the masses outweighed the "units of pain" experienced by the few. A less clear-cut example is murder. Let's say you just really want to kill some asshole that nobody likes. Utilitarianism might find this to be moral (and to be fair, depending on the asshole, a court system might as well). I think this is the best non-objective standard of morality, but it ultimately fails because it finds a few things moral that most people would not.

Objective standards of morality aren't exactly perfect either, whether we're talking about the Bible, Koran, Torah, or other Holy book (or "moral code"). Anything that's written (particularly the older documents that tried to define morality with a set of thousands of outdated rules) fails the test of morality. Instead, the heart of the argument for objective morality is the existence of a conscience in every normal (non psychotic or sociopathic) human being. The heart of the argument is that we were made in a creator's image, and part of that image is an inherent sense of morality. Obviously the argument against this is that we evolved a sense of morality to work together as a community to achieve common goals. Both are valid arguments, I think.

Now for the argument as listed above.

1) Some aspect of morality is observed.

This posits that we can agree that humanity as a whole, regardless of culture or belief system, can recognize something we would call a moral code (right vs wrong).

2) Belief in God provides a better explanation of this feature than various alternatives.

This presents the argument that humanity's sense of morality across the globe is best explained by being "cut from the same cloth" as a moral creator. Obviously this is the hotly debated point. As I stated above, that argument delves into whether morality evolved, or is a result of being made in a creator's image.

3) (paraphrased) Therefore, God exists.

If the two points above can be defended, the conclusion therefore is that God exists.


What do you think?

I'll do another on the teleological argument another time.
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby cgkanchi » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:24 am

Your second point, that (some standard of) morality is universal because humanity is "cut from the same cloth" is probably right. However, this does not require a creator. It merely requires that when humanity evolved, the certain behaviours had a benefit that outweighed their costs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby keezel » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:53 pm

You're right. I'm not aware of any good debates on that topic.

I personally think it always comes down to which an individual finds easier to believe. Would you rather believe in a common creator or a common evolutionary ancestry? Or even further back, would you rather believe that everything that currently exists has always existed in some form (i.e. the infinitely dense point that existed prior to the big bang) or a creator that brought everything that currently exists into being? Assuming in both cases the big bang occurred (as there is a preponderance of evidence showing it did), you still have to say that either the infinitely dense spec had always existed, or something else that exists outside of time brought it into existence. In either case you have to tackle the idea of something being "timeless", which I personally can't wrap my little brain around. :mad:

Which came first: the chicken or the egg? :D
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby DaFoxx » Sun May 12, 2013 12:08 am

keezel wrote:I once had a philosophy professor who defined evil as the absence of good - just as darkness is not itself a substance, but is the absence of light.


but I happen to think of light as absence of darkness :shock:
I was also told in art class - ok it WAS like a few years back - OK THEN 40 years back - happy now :P that WHITE is absence of colour, whereas BLACK was absence of WHITE :? think I dropped art about then, I just liked to doodle (.)(.) still do truth be told

but back to the basics of the thread, I still hold that 'god' is not the good guy, as 'god' is always the one doing the bad stuff, never leads by example, always MAKES examples, and the devil was just another human construct to offset the 'god' we already had drilled into our consciousness from aeons back

just to bounce this one back into the light :)
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby dinowuff » Wed May 15, 2013 4:20 am

fuck god
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby chaosclown » Wed May 15, 2013 7:17 pm

dinowuff wrote:fuck god


And this is why we don't talk about religion.......It's Pandora's Box
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby dinowuff » Mon May 20, 2013 4:01 pm

chaosclown wrote:
dinowuff wrote:fuck god


And this is why we don't talk about religion.......It's Pandora's Box


Wow, must have been having a really bad day. Religion is a wonderful subject to debate. Especially here, at the TAZ, because the members here most certainly:
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Interesting statement. "Do not hold grievances". I have been a member of this board since it's conception. And no it was not immaculate. There are those of us who have formed friendships, perhaps personal real world relationships. We have had our share of Flame Wars, but only in the Slap Me Silly forum. Perhaps in the MOD and ADMIN section, but still away from the public eye. In short - the members here are GOOD!

So is God Good? People are good. Deities are myths! Fictional. God requires faith to exist. So if no one believes in God - or someone actually runs into God and can prove Gods existence, doesn't God cease to exist? No 'faith in' or 'Prof of', kinda negates the rule of God and it's existence. So the real question is "Why should we assume that Faith is Good"?
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Re: WHY do we assume the GOD IS GOOD ??

Postby rapier57 » Mon May 20, 2013 6:14 pm

We must assume God is good. If God is not good, we are certainly lost.

Dino's comments about faith have a place in this, but faith doesn't define God. Faith is how we accept the mystery, not necessarily the entity. Of course, that depends on where you are in your journey of faith. In early parts of the journey, faith covers not just the mystery but God, the Son and the Spirit. As you grow and mature on the journey, faith covers less of the entity and more of the mystery.

At least, this is how the journey seems to me. God is all about relationship, and as you mature in the journey and relationship, the less "faith" you need in God. You still must have faith in the mystery, because that is the part that is so difficult to accept and understand. Parts of the mystery that are difficult to comprehend include: the concept of the Trinity, creation, free will, salvation, and good and evil.

So, while I personally have no doubts about the existence and presence of God in my life (the relationship), I still have to have faith to accept the mysteries and continue my journey. I still sometimes struggle with understanding, as I do more and more against gravity these days. But, that is part of the journey.

In reference to Keezel's and the Old Fox's exchange, God isn't a duality (good and evil), but the creation (the universe) does contain duality. There is a positive and negative, a force of action and force of reaction, matter and anti-matter, light and dark, throughout the universe. Good and evil, though, seem to be dependent on consciousness. A thing isn't essentially good or evil. Being conscious, good or evil are a result of our choices, our free will. While dark is the absence of light, evil isn't the absence of good. Good or evil is chosen by our conscious exercise of free will. We usually know the difference.
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