Fighting on drugs

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Fighting on drugs

Postby Kwiep » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:39 pm

I'm kinda intrigued by this. I saw a movie a while ago where the evil fighter guy was pumped on cocaine (iirc) and he didn't feel pain. Not only didn't he feel pain, when he got hit he wouldn't even knock back the slightest bit. Also this story:
I don't know about you, but have you ever hit someone that was on drugs, or seen someone hit that was drugged out? I have! Let me tell you a quick story. About 10 yrs ago I lived in an apartment complex, and was friends with several of my neighbors. One of my neighbors came over, because he was scared of a guy that was a drug user that he owed some money too. This guy had been beating on my neighbors door that night, cursing and threatening to kick his ass. My neighbor was out of a job and didn't have any money to pay this guy. Well, my neighbor came over to discuss it with me, and he had a huge 20" mechanics wrench in his back pocket. He was telling me the story of this guy, when all of a sudden we hear this "druggie" beating on his door, cursing, saying I'm going to slash your tires, and beat your ass. My neighbor, before I could stop him, threw open the door in a rage, pulled out the wrench, ran up to, and hit this guy on the head with everything he had. The "druggie" took the shot full force, like nothing happened. He didn't flinch, didn't blink, didn't move one inch, and didn't hesitate or miss one syllable of the profanities he was shouting to my friend. It was as if nothing had happened to him. It was as if my friend had just hit Superman on the head, with everything he had, and Superman just stood there unphased! If this druggie hadn't been on drugs, or it would've been you or me, we would've probably been out cold, or dead. My neighbor had literally split open this guys head, and blood was pumping and flowing out of it like you wouldn't believe. There was a pool of blood, within seconds, on the pavement that looked like a murder had taken place. That wrench was so heavy, and the blow was so hard, I'm surprised it didn't kill the guy. The sound of the impact was like a pecan being hit with a hammer. We later found out that my friend had fractured this guys skull. So don't tell me about autonomics working 100% of the time Mr. Peterson. There are a bunch of drugged out weirdos, who when hit with everything you've got, won't even flinch. Police departments all over the country have countless stories of people on PCP being shot enough times by officers to kill a normal person, yet they keep coming, or guys jumping out of a 3 story window and breaking every bone in their body, yet getting up and running off from the police!

I can understand you don't feel pain, but how can lethal wounds just be ignored. Is pain really that much of a cause of death rather then the wounds alone? How can someone with broken legs run, while his legs should like fold double or something? On pure musclepower? Why can't that be done when not on drugs. I understand pain is like a failsafe that's able to turn your brain of cold if it thinks you don't know what yer doing anymore, but it seems that's not always the best solution...
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Postby Jinxy » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:03 pm

Is pain really that much of a cause of death rather then the wounds alone?


Most people die from, "shock", or "trauma", I believe, and not the actual injury. There have been some amazing cases of people surviving, quite horrenduce wounds.

In the 'Falklands' war an Irish (if memory is correct) Gaurds Officer was shot in the head. He lost over 50% of his brain and survived.

Fighting on drugs is not a new thing. There is a theory that the Zuluz, got off there faces, before attacking the British colum at Isandlwana. All they were fighting with, was, "a pointy stick and an ironing board", and yet managed to wipe out a couple of 1000 well trained and armed soldiers?
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Postby Aspman » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:10 pm

I think your brain has built in failsafes. If you see you've broken your leg you're brain (autonomic/subconcience) will agree with you and you'll both get together and not use the leg.

Under extreme circumstances your brain will see that to leave to wound alone will result in death so it can block out all the pain an the common sense that would say to you don't use the leg. With enough adrenaline you could probably get up and run on a broken leg and carry another person with you. Of course the broken leg will be even more messed up by this but you'd still be alive.

Lots of battlefield stories about guys being injured and carrying on fighting till teh blood drains out etc.

I think drugs just produce the same effect but for less extreme circumstances.

Some of these drugs being anaesthetics themselves which can only help.
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Postby |3lack|ce » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:21 pm

strange but true - from the Texas Narcotics Officers Association journal (several years ago, one of my back issues)

A woman was walking to her car when a man came up and attempted to rape her. The woman drew a 9mm from her purse and had time to empty an entire clip into him. Of the 7 shots fired, 5 were lethal, striking the man in his head and heart. The 2 that weren't lethal were 1 in the lung and one in the belly.

The man, being dosed highly with pcp, survived long enough to complete the rape and kill his victim.

Drugs do strange things.

From reality:
Atropine, the common nerve gas reagent issued to troops, is nothing more than a high dosage of speed. It's designed not to counteract the nerve agent, but to instead keep you alive long enough to complete whatever task you were doing when you were gassed. I was told this by a corpsman back when we were issued our pen-injectors during desert storm. I believe him.
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Postby Shippwreck » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:40 pm

Well being a BIG star trek fan i have always thought that Pain is all in the mind and that with enough control you can overcome it and block it out.

However i don't believe that any human currently has or can achieve that level of discipline on their own, however i do believe that drugs could be one way to "block" the pain signals getting to your brain and therefore you do not feel the pain. I think that the drugs do it one of two ways.

1) actually physically blocking the nerve signal. (i have no idea how)

2) producing another signal that is far greater than the pain signal and therefore blocking it out. (kinda like if you stub your toe, try biting your tongue, and you'll soon see which one you feel the most...)

Anyway all of this is just what i think and i have no way of prooving any of it, except for the toe/tongue thing :lol:
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Postby Aspman » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:41 pm

B| atropine is actually the opposite of amphetamine (kinda).

It blocks the acetylecholine (ach) receptors in your nerves but without stimulating them. A bit like putting a blank key in a lock, it blocks the keyhole stopping the proper key from fitting but it won't open the door.

Amphetamine causes the release of extra acetylecholine, and nerver agents prevent the removal of ach so you get over stimulation.

Atropine blocks the receptor sites so even though the nerve agent is working by causing an excess of ach overstimulation can't occur.

<edit>

We're also hardwired to take some actions when pain occurs. If you burn your fingers/hand you pull it towards your body. That is actually hardwired within your spine. Another one is standing on a tack, in your spine you have wiring that in the even of pain in one foot, it lifts that foot and gets the other let ready to take the load. You don't even need to think about it.

I think you can overrule it with higher functions i.e. hold your hand over a flam if you want to.
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Postby |3lack|ce » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:59 pm

thanks asp - I never really knew, and believed that corpsman.
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Postby DaFoxx » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 pm

with regard to the zulu and their pointy stick :)

they had an advanced appreciation of tactics, and to that end the impi [zulu army] was born.
the pointy stick [assegai] was also developed to make the most of the impi tactics as was the shield ................

it also helped that they could be whacked out on cocoa leaves [Ethiopia's not that far]
but, I personally believe that they were just nuts :shock:
they might have beaten the army, but the wounded at Rouke's Drift outfought them :shock:

it doesn't make sense

as for drugs, I think more research is required :

pump a bucketfull into a convicted con, and tell 'em if they can get past the armed guards by the open gate, they are free to leave :D

methinks empirical evidence would show this to be in the urban myth camp :)
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Postby |3lack|ce » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:07 am

Fox, have you been reading too much Baden-Powell again?
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Postby Debs » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:44 pm

A little known fact about me...I was a fully qualified paramedic for a few years. I only lasted a few months on the job, but I did it. Anyway, one night, we responded to a report of a motorcycle accident. The gentleman in question was high on PCP, and not wearing a helmet. When we arrived, he was in the process of kicking the crap out of half a dozen policemen, and it took 3 more officers and 2 of the men who were riding with me to subdue this man. Upon examination, both of his legs were broken, his right arm was broken, and his left wrist was shattered. He also suffered a head wound that should have rendered him unconscious. The drugs blocking the pain and the headwound and drugs making him aggressive and incoherent combined to make him almost "invincible". There are many unexplainable mental events that we don't understand yet. The powers of the human brain have barely been touched yet. I'm sure we've all seen the specials on TV about people who are able to control their heart rate and body temperature strictly thru the power of their mind. We've also all heard of people who were diagnosed with an illness of some type and essentially "gave up" and just wasted away and died because they lost the will to fight. I believe that one day, we will have the ability to control a lot more of our body functions and pain and illness with nothing more than our mind.

As a side note, when I broke my foot, I was out drinking with my husband and friends. I broke my foot on our way to the club we were going to, and spent the rest of the night in high heels drinking, dancing, and playing pool. I was drunk, and didn't even realize the foot was injured until the next morning when I woke up sober and couldn't stand up on it. :oops:
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Postby Shippwreck » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:56 pm

ah, talking about acting super human.

I remeber seeing a news report a couple of years ago where this boy was working underneath his dads car. The car was up on the jack, but suddenly the jack failed, trapping the boy. The dad saw it happen from inside the kitchen and immedeately ran out and grapped the back and just lifted the car up off its back wheels, long enough for the boy to pull himself out!

The car itself was an average 4 door family car, so not a particulary light car and the dad was just a regular dad who didn't play much sport, or work out. In fact he looked kinda weedy in the interview :)
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Postby Debs » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:17 pm

Adrenaline in that case is the generally accepted thought. There are a lot of reports of this type of behavior, from both mothers and fathers, when their child is in some type of danger.
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Postby Aspman » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:46 pm

I read about a petite mothe who lifted a car of her child after an accident. She dislocated both her shoulders but still lifted the car.
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Postby Jinxy » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:48 pm

Aspman wrote:I read about a petite mothe who lifted a car of her child after an accident. She dislocated both her shoulders but still lifted the car.


Wasn't this sort of story the inspiration for "Dr Jeckal and Mr Hyde"??
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