The Rational God

The place for any Religious and/or Philosophical discussions, treatise, absolutions, ramblings, Aliens, UFO's, space exploration, mystical bullshit, astronomy, astrology, etc...
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50388Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:33 pm

You know what really surprises me in any discussion I have ever had concerning the nature of god...

is that people would rather believe in a vengeful, judgmental, egotistical, fire and brimstone, god that is a contradictory god to the other values they apply to it...

or a god of omniscient power and absolute love that allows pain, suffering and injustice to continue to his children in order to preserve freedom...

or no god at all...because all is in chaos...life was an accident...death is death...and therefore true justice cannot exist..for death brings absolution to all that you have done....the good and the bad die equal...therefore...what purpose is there in being good if you can get away with the most horrendous crimes if in death you are absolved?

than a natural god that goes about performing godly duties as the snow falls in winter...indifferent to the people that it falls upon...it just does according to it's design.

Amazing. Of the four concepts presented...which seems more likely?



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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50389Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:48 pm

Seeing as I just broached the subject anyways...

think about this...if death ends all...if upon death there is absolution in decay...then..

if you are smart enough to do whatever sick, horrible things you want, live off thievery, be cruel and inhuman to whoever you'd like...

and get away with it...

why shouldn't you?

If you can avoid the justice of man...and death absolves you...what point is there in being good?

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DaFoxx
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Post: # 50390Post DaFoxx
Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:49 pm

a natural god is no god
it's just life

and death DOES absolve everything
which is why some people DO try to get away with all kinds of badness

man is inherently good/ lazy / indifferent
only the dead know the answer
and they don't seem to be in any hurry to come back and let us in on the secret ........ ;)
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50394Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:56 pm

a natural god is no god
it's just life
Depends upon whether you're basing your perception of god on religious terms or natural terms...
a natural god is no god would be a correct statement based upon religious concepts of god. ;)
and death DOES absolve everything
You must have missed my following post...if death is absolution then why not be bad...? What point is there in restraining our baser side if good has no actual benefit?

What benefit is there in working 40 years when you can steal, become rich, and get away with it? ;)

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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50398Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:17 pm

Why not keep that wallet you find?
Why not go into a house and take what you want?
Why not kill the neighbors dog if he barks all night?
Why not rob that bank if you have a plan that will let you get away with it?
Why not steal that old lady's purse on check day?
Why not take that woman if you want her?
Why not kill that person who pissed you off?

If you can get away with it...why not?

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Post: # 50401Post DaFoxx
Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:57 pm

and death DOES absolve everything
which is why some people DO try to get away with all kinds of badness
If you can get away with it...why not?
it always comes down to IF
I. personally, can't be arsed enough to go and rob a bank, and will work till I die to provide for my family and friends
however, I would do all of the above if it became a necessity,

for a certain value of 'necessity' match ;)

apart from the rape bit, can never understand that 'urge', because sex is NEVER a necessity, and if you leave the girls alone they will continue to 'flaunt' themselves 'shamelessly' so long as they feel no fear ......... :P
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50403Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:11 pm

You're avoiding the question :P

The question is:

If death is absolution for the criminal and dust for the good...then, if you can be bad and get what you want...why not?

Let's assume you can get away with it...some do...in fact many do...why not?

Let's assume further that you're a dictator of the worst kind, you order your armies to commit genocide against a racial opposition...you order the mass murder of women and children...you enslave the survivors...you imprison your opponents...you live off the fat of the land while you let everyone else starve in the wake of your never-ending wave of destruction...

no one opposes you, no one cares...

you live a long and fruitful life...

you die of old age.

Why not? Death absolves you of your choices...and your crimes.

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Post: # 50407Post DaFoxx
Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:49 pm

too many assumptions
but
if I was a dictator
I would make your nightmares seem kinda tame

the streets would most definately be safe to walk on
by dint of the fact that damn nigh every lampost would have some fecker swinging from it

and, as you so rightly point out
death absolves all crimes

so my next time I could be even worse

there is no god as in a personification as such
there is 'just' life in all it's glory
good and bad

not forgetting sunrises
although I have seen more sunsets, I have been told that sunrise is kinda pretty too

but god, no .................
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50413Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 pm

OK...I know from past experience you've got your mind set :D

But...the term god is so well associated with religion that any reference to god outside of religion carries some baggage with it.

So...for the purpose of discussion we will change the name...because a name is merely a way to convey a thought about a particular object from one person to another...
eg. if we say an apple we both know what we are referring to...but if in my country an apple is called a elppa then only one of us would understand what an elppa is...thus communication becomes distorted or useless.

So...let's change the name god to ' Order ' or ' Nature '...a rose by any other name...if you disassociate the name god with religion is it any less god? ;)

If you admire a sunset or a sunrise...you are admiring the nature of god are you not? Or a freak accident?

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Post: # 50414Post DaFoxx
Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:05 pm

religion is the enemy
they have taken a natural occurance
and bastardized it out of all recognition

kill all religious leaders, and this world would eventually settle into a peaceful harmony

probably have to kill a few more zealots before the message got out there though

still no god
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50415Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:14 pm

OK...some basic questions that require only a yes or no :D

1. can something void of intelligence create or off-spring something intelligent?

if for instance the universe began as a rock...a rock void of intelligence...could a rock produce intelligence?

If something lacking and void of intelligence cannot beget intelligence then we must conclude that intelligence had to exist in some form from the very beginning. ;)

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Post: # 50418Post DaFoxx
Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:32 pm

constituent parts of a rock = carbon / silica / all the light molecules hydrogen to oxygen

YES

rock can produce life
we're living proof
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50419Post Egaladeist
Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:37 pm

If that's the case...and I admit I don't know much about that particular area...then a previous point of mine you just illustrated...
all things are differentiations of the same thing...

from a rock life can be produced and from life so also a rock...

therefore...intelligence also had to or has to exist in all things. :D conditioned by the body in which it is contained. ;)

But...does a body really contain life or receive it? ;)

My thought is that body acts like a receiver...body does not itself have life but utilizes it...like a radio utilizes radio waves...and I believe in time that element will be discovered. And in discovery the issues of soul/spirit will be answered. That man has no soul/spirit...but partakes of it as he breathes air.

This seems more reasonable to me than the religious concept of a separate entity living inside of us ( soul/spirit ) that is extracted upon death...or the atheist concept that there is nothing but body...
we see now that many things are done that we can't readily see with the naked eye...we can build a phone, a radio, a television, but to get them to work we need to provide something besides the body...
so it is not that far a stretch to think we work in a similar way ;)

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Post: # 50422Post DaFoxx
Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:55 am

the rock is life

it contains all that life requires
it just takes time

this planet was the rocky residue of the supernova that created this solar system
it's size is dictated by its distance to the nearest star [sun]
any further out and it would be too cold, and the composition would be more biased towards the gaseous elements

any closer and the heat is too great, and the elemental content would also bias towards the heavier elements

and heavy elements make small planets
our biggest planets are the gas giants
and they are WAY too far away to support OUR type of life form

earth was the rock in the right place with the right amount of time

and the sooner science debunks religion once and for all the better

it has been said the stephen hawkins [wheel chair / brain the size of a planet] was given an audience with the pope who tried to get SH to stop looking for the creation point of the universe, as a singular point where time began would, by default destroy the god squad

short version rock = life = intelligence
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Egaladeist
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Post: # 50423Post Egaladeist
Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:04 am

short version rock = life = intelligence
That is the normal atheist view...that the only thing that exists is matter.

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