What are WE like in heaven ?

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What are WE like in heaven ?

Postby DaFoxx » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:43 pm

Something that has been getting to me recently ..
on another forum we had quite a strong religious section, and some of the threads were quite addictive to read ...

but one thing has made me realise that there cannot be a heaven, and that, therefore, the entire premise for a god falls ....

and it is this :

When we die, we go to heaven [bear with me]

BUT

what appearence do we have ?
are we the same as at the time of death ?
a tad unfortunate for those who crashed and burnt methinks ....

do we arrive at the AGE when we die ?
again, a bit of a pisser if you outlive the better half by 50 years, then you turn up aged 90, and there she is STILL 40 :shock:

or is that why the marriage vow has THAT disclaimer [till death do us part ?]

OR, do we arrive as spirit form only, and are therefore without need for the physical encumberance of a body ........
in which case why have a body at all ?????

because of the dichotomy of the above - we die [yes] we go to heaven [yes-ish] we are going to have us a happy time there [HOW]

we have lost our corporeal body
we are in a non-sexual, non-gender, non-ANYTHING state

why bother going

it still leaves the question :

What DO we look like in heaven ??

until that is answered, I just cannot accept ANY form of heaven

take those muslim suicide bombers
just what kind of state are THEY going to be in when they arrive all breathless from the run, all ready to get themselves a gaggle of gagging virgins, yet we cannot possibly BE in this place, this place just cannot possibly exist, not even the most twisted minds on the planet [fantasy, Sci-Fi and cook book authors] could make THIS scenario happen

so how has it lasted so long that people will go to amazing lengths to get themselves ready to be accepted there .......

how much have YOU given up, just so YOU could be considered

I NEED a drink
:glugg:

Brandy works
heaven doesn't fly though

any thoughts ?

and don't worry 'bout MY eternal soul :)
where I'm going, I won't be needing it .......
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Postby Panama Red » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:03 am

A couple of sailor friends of mine have been back and forth (Halifax and Heaven) and they say it's real....

Well, there's Mary Lou and Peggy Sue, Wanda Lee and Rosie,
There's Candy, Sandy, Mandy, Jean, and Jane, And Josie;
Shirley and Eileen Marie and Roxanne,
They're Heaven to behold, those pretty girls of Newfoundland.


But seriously, being agnostic, and having my body cremated and dumped at sea, I believe I will come back in life as a AO Moderator, hahaha."Not".

Being as how there is really no way, this can be proven, I would be in the No camp, you either become worm bait or frikaseed, as to your soul/essence, who knows, I think reincarnation is cool, (as long as I can come back as the next Emperor of the World), but if that were true, then you would think we would be able to avoid repeating mistakes...

So to stop rambling, I believe IMHO that you need another drink.... :mad:
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Postby |3lack|ce » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:16 am

I know from reading my bible that Heaven has a few changes in store for us as people -

First, we're cleaned and made perfect. There's no more anger, hate, sarcasm, irony, or any of those negative things in us. Instead the only emotions we feel are joy and happiness.

Second we'll be reunited with our family and loved ones, all the way back to our eldest ancestor. This means that pretty much everyone will know everyone else, since if you believe as I do, we're all descended from Noah anyway.

Third and finally(and both from bible and imagination), we'll want for nothing. No hunger, no thirst, no need for sleep, none of that. However I like to believe that the feasting, drinking, and dozing can commence at any time and is kept readily 'on tap' for those of us who choose to indulge - if it wasn't, heaven'd be a pretty dull place indeed. Long as we keep things to a dull roar, the bouncer-angels won't come visit...

The bible says little about heaven. It's left to our own imaginations. I kind of like Heinlein's description of the way Heaven appears and operates in his book "Stranger in a Strange Land" - if you've not read it, do so and then we'll talk.
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:06 am

Just to throw in...

We know that matter is recycled...it is recycled because it is finite...therefore it must be constantly re-newed.

Therefore all mortal things are finite...are recycled...and renewed.

We also live in opposites...therefore if the finite exists so then does the infinite...

the infinite is not recycled...and not re-newed...it is the exact opposite of the finite.

The finite has definition...therefore the infinite does not...etc...

Eg ;)
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:12 am

Following this...

the infinite is ONE...and not many...

the finite is not one but is many.

Eg ;)
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:13 am

Again...

For lack of a better term...the infinite...the ONE...we shall refer to as god.

And the finite as everything else.

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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:20 am

In simple terms...the body, whether it be a rock or a man, ( all things not infinite ) is born, ages, decays, dies, and is reconstituted as something else...as food for something else.

Body is absolutely necessary for INDEPENDANT existence, without body there can be no shape or separation.

The spirit...the infinite...the one...is life.

This life inbeds itself in bodies to create independant life.

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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:22 am

This process is complete in all things...all things are inbedded with life.

The body determines how functional that life is or will be.

A rock has as much life as a man...however, a rock does not have a body that can use it functionally.

Eg ;)
Last edited by Egaladeist on Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:25 am

Upon dissolution of a body...the spirit is let loose and is re-assimulated back into the whole as it no longer has a body to contain it...as like pouring a glass of water into the ocean...the cup, the body...the ocean, the spirit...

UNLESS...there is another body able to contain it.

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Postby Panama Red » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:44 am

Geez Eg you sound like "Spock", for the needs of many, outwieghs the needs of one speach... :P

Or we are just made up of so many atoms/particles, that when we die they are released back into the whole, and are reconstituted when needed to form mass.?

:?
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:53 am

hi dalek,

Or we are just made up of so many atoms/particles, that when we die they are released back into the whole, and are reconstituted when needed to form mass.?


If the finite was re-assimulated into the infinte and then spat out then matter would not need to recycle itself...in any case they are opposites.

For the purpose of this discussion...we will call the infinite god...and the finite the devil :D

the infinite is immortal, divine, perfect, etc..

and the finite is mortal, gets sick, dies, suffers, decays, etc...

:D

Eg ;)
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Postby Panama Red » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:17 am

For the purpose of this discussion...we will call the infinite god...and the finite the devil


Isn't the devil a god of sorts, he is after all immortal right, so to use that analogy you would have two infinites, or should I read... that all mortals (man) are in fact devils?

I understand infinite as being endless or boundless and finite as being limited, there is an end to finite.

So with that, your saying the bodies essence can be considered infinite as it doesn't truly decay or dissapear, but in fact re-enters the cosmos, as a thought or spirit..but in relative terms a rock which is not life (sentient) can be considered infinite as well, same with the Universe, is it alive and finite or just expanding infinitely, or will there be an end to that expansion (who knows?)

Am I following this thread??? or am I as confused as I sound???
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:57 am

Hi dalek,

Just for the purpose of discussion I've separated the infinite from the finite...

the infinite being by it's nature of unchanging is free from all mortal frailities...

the finite being mortal is subject to all the frailities of that being...therefore for all intense purposes it is responsible for everything we attribute to evil...albeit without body ( mortality ) there can be no independant existence...just as water...eg. a river... cannot be independant of the ocean without body/land to surround it...

independant life or existence needs body...

now...the infinite is just that...infinite...therefore it must be everywhere present...so the same life that a man has is the same life that a rock has...or a tree, or a dog...however, our bodies which are the vessels that use this infinite force are very much different...

a rock has no eyes, no brain, etc...but is still inbedded with the same life force which is all-encompassing...infinite...in everything...

our bodies therefore do not have spirit but use it...like a receiver...our bodies are designed to receive it in such a way as we can use it...

and as long as we have body we have life...

the question becomes then...if the spirit is omni-present in all things...and we utilize it according to the limitations of our body...when we die...

we must either have another body to retain that identity we have created for ourselves through life and circumstance...or...

that independant existence...that life we call our own...dies upon the dissolution of the body.

And this is the question concerning an afterlife...for there to be an afterlife we must have two bodies...so...upon the dissolution of the one there must be another body to contain the independant existence and it's attributes.

Eg ;)
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:08 am

Therefore continued retention of memory, experience, etc...would be completely dependant upon man having two bodies...so upon the dissolution of the one the other would retain that existence...identity.

Like pouring one cup of water into another.

And this is where it gets cloudy...if we have one body then death is to become non-existant...upon the dissolution of our body.

However, if we have two bodies then there is an after-life...the second body would be mortal like all bodies but may be made in a different way, so as to give longer life or better functionality.

So...to prove an after-life you must prove the existence of a second body.

Eg ;)
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Postby Egaladeist » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:17 am

Spirit= the power source

brain= the computer

senses= the data input

body= the gadgets

man is well-suited to utilize the power source

whereas a rock is not

both are inbedded with the same power source but one does not have the functionality to put it to use

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