Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

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Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby DaFoxx » Wed May 22, 2013 3:01 pm

http://www.zdnet.com/us-urged-to-permit ... 000015731/

was only a matter of time until this happened IMHO, although gawd only knows what the world virtual and reality will look like once it gets entrenched

Throwing money at creating cyberpolice forces and technology to keep up with digital threats may not be the only tactics the U.S. will employ in the future.

As a meeting between President Obama and the new president of China, Xi Jinping, draws near, former senior officials in the Obama Administration will recommend a series of steps to deter hackers from the country from stealing U.S. industrial secrets.

As reported by The New York Times, Dennis C. Blair and Jon M. Huntsman Jr., leaders of the private Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property, suggest that if less forceful measures to deter hackers fail, then companies should be granted the right to protect their systems on their own terms.

The right to retaliate against cyberattackers is detailed in the commission's report, due for release today.

China and the United States have constantly clashed over the prevalence of cyberattacks. A recent report issued by the U.S. Department of Defense laid the blame for widespread cyber espionage campaigns against U.S. targets squarely at the Chinese government and military's feet, just as security firm Mandiant claimed that China is responsible for an "overwhelming number" of cyberattacks in February.

China denies these claims, and has said that accusations are "groundless."

Recently, former and current government officials said that a Chinese attack on Google servers in 2010 resulted in the exposure of data relating to U.S. surveillance targets.

-------------------------
Huntsman commented:

"China is two-thirds of the intellectual property theft problem, and we are at a point where it is robbing us of innovation to bolster their own industry, at a cost of millions of jobs. We need some realistic policy options that create a real cost for this activity because the Chinese leadership is sensitive to those costs."
------------------------

The new report proposes that in order to stop the theft of intellectual property, foreign firms that wish to be listed on the stock exchange would have to pass a review by the Securities and Exchange Commission to make sure they are not using stolen technology. In addition, Congress should "greatly expand the number of green cards available to foreign students who earn science, technology, engineering and mathematics degrees in American universities and who have a job offer" in the United States. This may encourage students to stay in the country, rather than take their skills and knowledge elsewhere and later work for U.S. competitors.

When dealing with cyberattacks, the former senior officials propose allowing American companies to "be able to retrieve their electronic files or prevent the exploitation of their stolen information" by either including self-destruction capabilities within files, or counterattack directly.

If hacking counterattacks are made legal, the report argues, then "there are many techniques that companies could employ that would cause severe damage to the capability" as long as law enforcement agencies are aware of what's going on. However, if attacking becomes the best defense, then some government officials fear that the cyberwar between nations will quickly escalate and could end up out of control.

As a last resort, the report says that tariffs or restrictions could be placed on the import of Chinese products, a measure that Senators have already considered. This month, a new bill was proposed that would block the import of products which contain U.S. technology stolen through cybercrime.
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby SirDice » Wed May 22, 2013 4:16 pm

The right to protect is not the same thing as the right to retaliate.

If hacking counterattacks are made legal, the report argues, then "there are many techniques that companies could employ that would cause severe damage to the capability" as long as law enforcement agencies are aware of what's going on.

Right, if you're stupid enough to get your company hacked I seriously doubt you're smart enough to find the culprit. Besides, what if it's some innocent bystander? What about collateral damage when that server hosts more customers? What about local laws when the machine ends up in some other country?

I've said it before (the Dutch have a similar proposal on the table) and I'm going to say it again, it's a really, really bad idea.
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby rapier57 » Wed May 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Dead-on there, SD. The chaos would be tremendous.
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby DaFoxx » Wed May 22, 2013 7:43 pm

can't not agree with SD more, it will bring anarchy to the wwweb faster than any hacker collective could ever hope to achieve
and the main point is also valid
if you can't defend, how the feck are you going to attack ?

or, does it mean you bring in 'hired guns' pen testers in reverse, and again, what about compromised systems, if you have been hacked, yet it was by someone DEFENDING themselves, as their attack came FROM YOU :shock: as your infrastructure is pwned

the Gordian knot has nothing on this potential mother of all foxx ups
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby rapier57 » Wed May 22, 2013 11:58 pm

Posting my "for hire" site.

Have toolz, will crack-back.
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby SirDice » Thu May 23, 2013 10:58 am

DaFoxx wrote:or, does it mean you bring in 'hired guns' pen testers in reverse, and again, what about compromised systems, if you have been hacked, yet it was by someone DEFENDING themselves, as their attack came FROM YOU :shock: as your infrastructure is pwned

Yeah, exactly. Suppose the US and the Dutch apply this proposal. A US company thinks some server is attacking them and they retaliate. Turns out to be a shared hosting and one of the other sites is mine. So, in accordance with Dutch law, I see this as an attack and start a counter-attack. Which will be seen as an attack on the US side and they will retaliate. Now combine this with some of the older remarks made by the US, an attack on their infrastructure will be retaliated with bombs. What the hell are they going to do? Nuke Holland because some overzealous US admin thought the attack came from there? This will spiral so hard out of control :shock:
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby Aspman » Fri May 24, 2013 3:29 pm

In reality if the perp is in the same country (UK) it would be illegal under the Computer Misuse act to take any action against them.

If pen testers nee a 'Get out of Jail' card for when they're doing paid work, you can think that Joe Public is going to get it any easier. Stoopid with a capital stoop!
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby |The|Specialist » Wed May 29, 2013 4:46 pm

Anyone above the age of 21 who's still doing this stuff with computers likely has problems coping mentally or emotionally. If a governmental type would give me the time and opprortunity... I'd walk past an armed checkpoint then break in directly if needed. They can paint a black star on a wall as im doing it.

:crying2:
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby rapier57 » Thu May 30, 2013 8:23 pm

;-)
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby dinowuff » Fri May 31, 2013 10:38 pm

|The|Specialist wrote:Anyone above the age of 21 who's still doing this stuff with computers likely has problems coping mentally or emotionally. If a governmental type would give me the time and opprortunity... I'd walk past an armed checkpoint then break in directly if needed. They can paint a black star on a wall as im doing it.

:crying2:


Hear-Hear! Well said
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby DaFoxx » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:44 am

|The|Specialist wrote:Anyone above the age of 21 who's still doing this stuff with computers likely has problems coping mentally or emotionally. If a governmental type would give me the time and opprortunity... I'd walk past an armed checkpoint then break in directly if needed. They can paint a black star on a wall as im doing it.

:crying2:


sniffs
our little spec is all grown up now
those last 10 year s have flown by, and now we have our very own professional site trasher :shock: :hysterical:
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby Egaladeist » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:14 am

sniffs
our little spec is all grown up now


:rolf6: :crying2: it had to happen :crying2:
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Re: Been hacked ? get hacking back at them ........

Postby SirDice » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:03 am

Men don't grow up, they only get older ;)
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