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Egaladeist
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Return to the Cold War...

Post: # 118463Post Egaladeist
Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:43 pm

U.S. flies aid into Georgia, Russia occupies towns

Russian troops and armor moved in or around at least three Georgian towns on Thursday, ignoring demands by Washington that Moscow respect Georgia's territorial integrity.

Reuters witnesses saw Russian troops in the key central Georgian town of Gori and outside the western town of Zugdidi. Residents in the Black Sea port of Poti saw a Russian incursion.

In Moscow, the Russian General Staff said it was legitimate for "Russian peacekeepers" to be in Poti and for what it termed "reconnaissance parties" to be in Gori, two days after Russia signed up to a French-led peace plan to stop the fighting.

Russian armed forces have occupied parts of Georgia since repelling a Georgian attack last week on the tiny pro-Russian separatist territory of South Ossetia.

The conflict has spooked oil markets and alarmed the West, which fears it could spiral out of control.

Sharpening the confrontation with the United States over the future of Georgia, Medvedev received in the Kremlin on Thursday the leaders of the two separatist regions at the heart of the week-old conflict and promised them Moscow's backing.

"Russia's position is unchanged: we will support any decisions (on future status) taken by the peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in accordance with the U.N. Charter...and not only do we support but we will guarantee them," a stern- looking Medvedev said.

In Georgia, U.S. military planes airlifted aid in a show of Washington's support for its embattled ally.

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Geor ... =0&sp=true
support for its embattled ally
hummmmmmmmmmmmm...which ally?

Do you think the US should really be ' taking sides ' on this issue? This is not a case where the US has shared fond and lasting friendships with Russia or Georgia...it's not like picking sides between Britain and France...this is sticking your nose into an argument between two ' very recent ' former enemies...

not IMO a good idea.



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Morganlefay
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Post: # 118468Post Morganlefay
Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:23 pm

It all about oil

nuff said!

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OMEN
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Post: # 118469Post OMEN
Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:35 pm

Do you think the US should really be ' taking sides ' on this issue? This is not a case where the US has shared fond and lasting friendships with Russia or Georgia...it's not like picking sides between Britain and France...this is sticking your nose into an argument between two ' very recent ' former enemies...
well not France.. but yes USA with it's conflict resolution history should stay the f#ck away.

Georgia is x USSR state and while in ussr the commies brainwashed eveyone to love everyone of every creed and and race and religion, oh wait that's what every nation is percieving as the norm.

Now every village, town, post code, street, door number is fighting for "their own".

Chechnya, Georgia or any other ex ussr states are Russia's mess and unless there is some proof that Russians are tyrants and unprovoked are owning Georgia, then and only then some UN forces or UN orders for Russia to pull out should be considered.

American government proved they can't do anything right, so not doing anything might be the right thing.

This is my oppinion..

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Post: # 118474Post dinowuff
Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:13 pm

Simply put - if the U.S. doesn't do anything, the rest of the world will do NOTHING.

If the U.S. doesn't do anything the rest of the world will blame the U.S. for not doing anything.

Damn if you do, Damned if you don't

I suggest that; unless you are an American Tax Payer that has voted in every election and served in the armed forces, that you.....


























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Post: # 118477Post outerlimit
Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:20 pm

ROFL! Nice dino
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Panama Red
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Post: # 118487Post Panama Red
Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:49 pm

If Georgia had of been part of NATO, then Russia would not have moved in like that knowing it would be responded to.

America is pushing to have "Democracies" on Russia's doorstep so in effect they are already doing "things" that piss of the Russians.

Can't have your cake and eat it too...if the US takes sides and the Russians take sides then at some point the two sides will meet...and if you have made promises (US State Dept to Georgian officials) then live up to those promises and be counted.

Putin roared and Bush wailed...end ex...

Just my 0.02!

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Egaladeist
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Post: # 118491Post Egaladeist
Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:13 pm

I suggest that; unless you are an American Tax Payer that has voted in every election and served in the armed forces, that you.....
The only problem with that is that what the US does doesn't just affect them...we live in a world economy...

and I don't see anyone asking the US to police the world...it is a job they took on themselves...

the two times we really needed the US to get involved...WW1 and WW2...in 1914 and 1939 they were protesting against going to war. Yes, we could not have won without them...but...like Hollywood movies they only arrived close to the end like the Calvary coming in to save the day. Fresh reinforcements after everyone else, ally and enemy, was already battle weary.

If not for Pearl Harbor the US still might be sitting around debating their involvement.

...........................

Now I'm not saying this is true of all US politicians...or even most...but...it appears to the general public, including a percentage of Americans themselves, that the only time the US is ' gung-ho ' about joining or creating a conflict is when there is substantial rewards either in economic terms or strategic terms.

When there is no substantial ' winfall ' awaiting at the end they seem to be hesitant even unwilling.

Of course I am referring to those in a position of power not the general US population.

eg. I'm sure that if war against Hitler had been up to the public the US would have been there in 1939 despite the government or protesters.

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Post: # 118504Post cgkanchi
Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:03 pm

All you Americans:
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SirDice
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Post: # 118509Post SirDice
Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:48 pm

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I go away to VJ for one friggin weekend and when I came back all hell has broken loose..

I'm not even positive who did what?!?

Why did Russia bomb the crap out of them? Why are they still moving forward?

Why is the UN soo awfully quiet.. Kofi Annan would have been all over it...
I haven't seen the new guy.. Damn, can't even remember his name that's how much he's been in the news..

WTF is happening there?

MLF is right.. And Georgia doesn't even have oil of it's own.
But there are a crap load of pipelines going through it..
Oliver's Law:
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

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Post: # 118510Post snakedog
Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:57 pm

Might be Shrub's perfect opportunity to leave a big, stinkin' turd
for the next President. His daddy left one for his successor (Somalia).
The Bush's got the lameduck thing down pat.

Besides, more war is more exports for America's mfg'ers. We
didn't get to be the biggest arms dealer in the world by makin'
peace.

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Egaladeist
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Post: # 118511Post Egaladeist
Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:12 am

It's actually funny in a weird kinda way...here we have three participants

Georgia
Russia
and
South Ossetia

South Ossetia won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992

Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia

Russia sends in the Troops to protect South Ossetia and it's independence

the US sides with Georgia

.......................

in conclusion: Russia is protecting the independence of South Ossetia and this time the US is siding with the aggressor Nation that will not allow South Ossetia's independence...

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

1. support the independence and break-up of the Soviet Union...support the independence of breakaway states...against the aggressor Nation

2. then change policy to thwart independence of breakaway states and side with the aggressor Nation

irony anyone? :D

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Morganlefay
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Post: # 118514Post Morganlefay
Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:56 am

:hysterical: Mr Dice.........too fricken funny

I have to get up now and get something to wipe the wine off my laptop....

Hope Atlanta is ok.........LOL

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Post: # 118526Post Aspman
Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:13 am

Morganlefay wrote:It all about oil

nuff said!

MLF


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Plus Putin gets to do a little bit of armoured willy waving.

"Hey look western people we Russians still have running tanks and are a mighty power"

Prob with that is their kit is 10-20yr out of date and we could probably pick them off as long as we have enough ammunition.

BUT Russia is accumulating wealth rapidly through the elevated oil price. Dropping some HE on Georgia will keep the price up for a while longer. Russia is going to have enough money to start to redevelop and rearm. We are starting to run out of money to do anything other than pay the gas bill.
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Post: # 118805Post Harbinger
Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:09 am

Remove the pipeline from Georgia and you have absolutely 0 interest by both external parties. I agree with one of the interviewed Russians whom basically said that there are no good guys here--not even the Georgia's president.

~Georgia was provoked by separatists.
~Georgia went overkill in the desired reaction.
~Russia used every and any excuse to exercise their military and seize a strategic location (IE: Western Europe's energy).
~The USA is pissed because Russia is compromising their own interests (IE: oil pipeline) in the region.

Everyone is looking out for #1. What else is new?

The major significance is whether Russia actually wants to go back to active conquest and bullying of the Soviet era to make its move worth scaring states such as Ukraine and Poland into finally agreeing to US missile sites, etc.
"I am never wrong. I thought I was once, but I was mistaken."

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Post: # 118810Post cemetric
Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:23 am

People should stop calling it the "next cold war" ... Or make up their damn mind ...

Is it Global Warming ... Or Cold War ...

cemetric = confuseled
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