Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Egaladeist » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:17 pm

The problem with Obama, as I alluded to before, will be his foreign policy...more specifically his very Carterish diplomatic style that will likely be severely tested over the next 4 years...

most of these Arabic and less-modern or religiously-ruled Nations still view things in terms of:

1. niceness/diplomacy=weakness
2. threats/warlordship=strength

if he doesn't put forward a strong ' don't fruckin' mess with me ' attitude don't be surprised if the next time the US goes into Syria on a bombing run the Syrians shoot back...etc...etc...etc...

just like with Carter...diplomacy will be viewed as a weakness...and all weaknesses will be exploited.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Kwiep » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm

imnogeek wrote:quote from ^ link

Denys Hatton, from Guildford, added: "If your life is such that you're placing all your hopes in a politician, then may I humbly suggest you get yourself a crate of superlager and a cardboard box and stop wasting everyone's time."


:rolf6:


That's a very good quote right there.

Personally I'm somewhat sickened by the european leaders, especially germany, france and barroso (european commision), litterally tripping over eachother to kiss up to Obama. I tend to lean more to the UK approach and I think most of the dutch do, we're too sober to get all excited yet. Even (or especially) under Bush, the dutch have been one of the more 'leaniant' (sp?) europeans (excl. the english) towards the US. Germany and france apparently need (almost literally quoting this) Obama to make the world a better place and shake things up. Where are your fucking balls, how about you fix it yourself. As alot of dutch journalists have pointed out, Obama promised to make the USA a better place and that doesn't include europe or any other nation unless it benefits the US.

What I do like about him is that from what I've seen he's clever and sharp.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Vorlin » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:12 pm

Panama, I understand about morals and such but as history has shown, there's a boatload of "corrupted" politicians who've wanted to do the right thing with changes/etc but they can't because when you step into office, you'll do what "they" tell you, pretty much. Morals seem to go out the window when a good candidate gets into office. Sure, Clinton had a great economy going...he also turned the Oval Office into the Oral Office and the media had a field day with that one. If it's not one scandal, it's another, it seems.

On the topic of Obama, yeah I voted McCain based on his experience and military served (and other things), but now that Obama's in, I'm not saying "Down with Obama" like some around here are, I'm gonna see how he plays out for the next 4 years so yes, there is support there. At least I'm not like these die-hard republicans in my area that won't support a democrat no matter if they were saving the world.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby James » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:38 pm

Same here, I'm reserving judgment until he fixes/breaks the first thing. I have been leaning much more toward McCain, but never voted, as neither of them truly ever won me over. I don't know if there was a "win" candidate for us this time around.

So we'll see what happens. Question is, can he break the country worse than his 43 predecessors have?
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby keezel » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:20 pm

It's been two days since Obama was nominated, and it's hard not to notice the stock market's reaction.

Down 800 points in two days...that's nothing new considering the state of our economy, but it would be foolish not to think it's unrelated. I'm actually not entirely surprised considering Obama's intention to tax the hell out of businesses.

I'm wondering how much further the stock market can fall. It can't continue falling at this rate indefinitely or our economy (and the world's) will be pretty f'd.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Panama Red » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:30 pm

I don't think it's related, the stock market is undergoing a huge correction, will take a small recession to get there, most of the large corporations were heading for the toilet bowl anyway, which is why the big 3 automakers may become the big 2 real soon.

Also all that prime real estate that sent the lenders to the floor are now prime targets for buyers or investors with lots of available cash, property values will go back up, they have to, the demand will be there for it to happen so right now, it's a buyers market and if your lucky to have the available dough then you would be buying...lots of banks are selling off properties at fire sale prices, one thing a lot of property owners do not want on the East Coast and Northern States or in Canada is to heat an empty house....so they will be making deals, for those that hung in there, I am sure a new round of re negotiating of mortgages will be going on and the old home owner may come out of this ok yet...

The barrel of crude is about to bankrupt a lot of Saudi's and Ruskies and Iranians, which is a good thing, also it will stimulate the transport industry and hopefully the cost savings will be passed on, i.e. groceries etc...

Hope is around the corner, too many variables in these economic times, it has been said it's almost impossible to experience the times of the Depression because of the many markets and what is out there for investments, people will have to relearn economics, start being frugal, the toy period is definitely over, many will pass on those hummers now...credit card companies will have to lower their interest rates or lose customers who will head for the banks to pay off the cards and limit themselves to buying with cash...

This has been way overdue.... :breakfast:
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Kwiep » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:47 pm

I'm starting to get the idea I'm one of the lonely few who don't give a fuck about the stock market or it crashing. I don't have stocks and I don't have a shitload of money squared away with people who play with it like it's theirs.

The only reason I even have a bankaccount is because it's practical. Since I was a little child I didn't get the idea of storing your money somewhere where some people use it to make more money to build more big fancy bank buildings. Now apparently there are occasions where those "some people" lose YOUR money and you won't even get it back. Keep your fucking interest rates, I just want a place to store my euros to pay for beer later. All fricking 30 of my euros.

Well ok... all 27 of em, I keep three in my wallet.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby James » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:25 pm

I'm starting to get the idea I'm one of the lonely few who don't give a fuck about the stock market or it crashing.


Oh no, I'm much in the same boat. I don't own stocks (except for a tiny Oracle share since I'm an employee and thought what the heck), so my 401K is really the only thing affected there. The stock market crashing means nothing to me as of present.
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Harbinger » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:40 am

A wildly successful US president need only two things:

1) A strict adherence to the Constitution.
2) A solid grasp of Austrian Economics.

The USA grew mighty through individual self-determination and ingenuity. These were composed of a willingness to strive, the diversity and freedom to innovate, and the incentive to do all of the above.

Wealth, progress, prosperity, and liberty are not government capital derived inherently from law, beaucracy, and institutions. These are created by the people solely. Governments at worst steal and waste these products of worthy people and at best have no involvement.

In 232 years, a land created to escape a king, the oppressive hand of government, and endless wars has written over 50,000 laws and executive orders, become embroiled in all manners of foreign conflict, and delegated a terrifying degree of power to a single individual.

I walk around every day pissed about mockery which my heritage has been perverted into. The best I can do is educate those around me and personally rise above. I'm just terrified that I might become another Timothy McVey.
"I am never wrong. I thought I was once, but I was mistaken."
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Re: Election 2008: Obama vs McCain

Postby Vorlin » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:23 am

Forgoing the stock market and stuff, my parents and I have been looking around here in Augusta/North Augusta and we've counted over 120 houses for sale both by owner and realtors, SUVs - Hummers - big-ass cars like Lincolns and the Cadillacs for sale like mad....unused parking lots have become sale lots for cars and I'm surprised the police haven't had a field day with ticketing. And the messed up thing is: there's companies around STILL building housing areas and apartments! It's like "What are you thinking? The housing market is IN THE TOILET. People are just happy that gas prices have halved themselves (gas here is now $1.95-$2.05 variable, down 100% basically from 2 months ago @ $4.00+) and yet groceries are still up for "whatever" reason. And right now, it's a big thing if we go to a movie once a month or eat out at the Pinnacle Club (super fancy place where you have to be a member to eat there) where the three of us eat would cost nothing less than $60 a person. It's the kind of place where you don't pay at the place, you get a monthly bill. But outside of that, we stick to the house and thank GOD for the internet and programming, hehe. Dad & I have worked a TON around the house and have gotten a lot done. Frugalness can really alter your lifestyle as you may or may not see it.
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