If you were running the Government...

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If you were running the Government...

Postby Egaladeist » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:40 am

what would you do about the financial crisis?

Personally, I wouldn't bail out any of them...the essential component of capitalism is you either make it or you don't...those are the risks you accept in a capitalistic economy...

to create jobs I would invest capital into established and/or ' growing ' businesses...businesses that have a good marketing strategy and have a proven fiscally secure managerial track record...

the capital invested would be specifically for job creation and training...and would be conditional that the jobs and training provided/created would be cost effective and equal to the investment of capital

essentially I would be rewarding businesses who have a proven fiscally responsible track record...and allowing businesses with poor managerial skills or those that lack fiscal responsibility to wallow and die in their own greed or stupidity.

I would also penalize Companies who sell in the Country but ' only ' manufacture overseas...as an example Nike has it's head office in Seattle I believe but ( maybe they do now...but they didn't when I saw the W5 episode on shoe manufacturers a few years back ) doesn't manufacture a single shoe in the US, it all comes from Indonesia in factories that pay less than Indonesian minimum wage.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Vorlin » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:52 pm

I wouldn't have bailed out any of them, definitely not the "Big 3"...only thing big about them are their paychecks while everyone else who works for them struggles. As for companies that manufacture overseas, I'd not help them either. That's been one of our biggest problems that I've seen...every damn thing you buy nowadays at Wal-Mart and other stores has "Made in China" (or as my dad says, made in ch*nkland) stamped on it and it pisses me off. Maybe it sounds racist of me to say that, but I say we should pull out of foreign countries where we solely manufacture stuff and return those jobs to the US workers here. Hell, if we just did that for China alone, we could probably make up for the loss of jobs right there.

I'd definitely invest in companies that are trying to make it internally (they manufacture here, they invest here, and they hire US citizens) then penalize those that don't; maybe to the point of going out of business AND prevent them from filing bankruptcy. Bad business models have been running for years and nothing's been preventing what we're seeing now and the suck ass thing about it is that we're the ones who get to suffer through it.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby rapier57 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:28 pm

I was listening to the Cranky Geeks this morning while riding the bus. John C. Dvorak and I see eye to eye on the H1B issue (special work visas for foreign workers with "special" skills). We just need to drop the H1B's altogether. I think, and Dvorak seems to agree, that the H1B is just an excuse to hire foreign workers for less money, don't give them any benefits, abuse and overwork them, then send them back when the project is done. I don't think it is right and there is no other reason that this would be desirable by a US company. When you get right down to it, there is nothing that a US worker can't do, given the opportunity. If there are special needs for talent or certified skills, give a US worker the opportunity to develop those. The US worker will get that done faster than just about any worker from any other country in the world.

One of the other commentators said that if you can't find workers in the current climate to fill your jobs, you need to look at your jobs. The jobs are wrong. I think that is right.

While this all smacks of a bit of jingo-ism, I feel that any time you go to the store in the US and buy something made in China, some US citizen is going without a job. I believe in globalization, to a point. But, when every stinking thing you use is made outside your country and you've hamstrung your internal capability to build, design, manufacture and produce products and innovate technology, you cannot have a healthy economy. Until we get back to where we're innovating, making, creating and building things again, we're going to be taking an economic back seat to the rest of the world.

The reality is that when the US is strong, and the US economy is healthy, the rest of the world benefits.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Egaladeist » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:25 pm

I feel that any time you go to the store in the US and buy something made in China, some US citizen is going without a job.


Back during the Trudeau era in Canada there was a big push to buy Canadian...all Canadian products had the ' made in Canada ' sticker prominently displayed...the next administrations haven't kept it up...I thought it was a good idea, and one of Trudeau's better ideas.

The reality is that when the US is strong, and the US economy is healthy, the rest of the world benefits.


Absolutely agree...before you help anyone else you have to ensure that you are strong enough to help...otherwise you just make everyone weak. Unfortunately, apart from Hockey, Canada is not very patriotic minded, when it comes to flying the flag and such we as about as apathetic as they come.

Bad business models have been running for years and nothing's been preventing what we're seeing now and the suck ass thing about it is that we're the ones who get to suffer through it.


We should let them die, and support Companies that are fiscally responsible.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Vorlin » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:06 am

I agree with both Eg and rapier...right now I wish the worst on those in companies that've been screwing their workers, screwing the economy by basing everything on overseas production, etc. People might say "Well, what about those overseas working to get this to us and their families?" and to that, I say screw them, let their own government take care of things for their own damned country and the answer doesn't involve the USA, Canada, the UK, France, Germany... Let them plead and beg to South/North Korea, Thailand, etc.

As far as the businesses dying, that'd work to a degree, but companies like Ford have been around since the 30s...and if you take a car company like Ford and it goes under, every city that houses a dealership with Ford on it goes under and that's just more to add to the pile. I'm in the Augusta area and 5 dealerships are closing down and we're only talking about Ford, not any of the others out there. We're talking big dealerships, reaching out past Grovetown and all the way to Thompson GA. You know, the kind that have 10 garage bays for tune-ups, fixes, etc. 500+ car lots, you name it. One city having that happen wouldn't be too bad, but nation-wide, that's a lot of people out of work.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Egaladeist » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:27 am

i agree that's a lot of people out of work...dealerships, auto plants, auto parts plants, independent assembly plants, etc..could mean a few ghost towns...

but...if we were to take that $700 billion from the bank debt, the 300 billion in other company debt, and instead of bailing them out invest that money on fiscally responsible business that is willing to expand, create jobs, and train workers...I think a trillion dollars would solve the long-term employment problem.

But...in the short term...yes, a lot of people would be hurting.

The problem is if we keep bailing out fiscally irresponsible management we basically create a welfare mentality where fiscal irresponsibility will continue regardless ... ' not to worry, the government will bail us out again '

and we end up keep throwing bad money after bad.

The government, in my opinion, has to take the hard road...to send a message that the government gravy train is over...if you do not operate your business with good business practices and fiscally responsible management then you are on your own. This will ensure that other businesses improve the way they do business.

However...having said that...I think businesses who are responsible should still be given help...because there are other reasons why a business goes through hard times...as an example, farmers having a bad growing season due to weather conditions.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Aspman » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:03 am

Death of the Unions in the USA?

Allegedly a bit part of the problems was that the unions within the big 3 forced pay and conditions to be higher than that within the Jap factories.

My own experience of Unions is not positive. In general the stewards (and higher) use union disputes for their own score settling or to achieve their own agendas. Workers right are very much down the line.
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Egaladeist » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:25 am

What's the saying?...power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

I agree Union leaders are just as bad as management...when i was a member of a Union the only thing I ever saw them do was take ' business/working vacations in tropical locations '...courtesy of our Union dues :roll:
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Re: If you were running the Government...

Postby Panama Red » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:28 pm

Problem with blaming the Unions is that everyone forgets that over the last 10 yrs the 3 big car makers and most of the banks were recording record breaking profits each quarter, now when you line that up with the decent hard working union man's wages, I kinda agree with the Unions, they fought for those benefits and as far as I am concerned the Government has no business trying to bust the Unions, as was stated last night on MSNBC, if you take the wages earned by the big 3 and compare them penny for penny to the other car manufacturer's like Toyota, they are in fact paid less (not a whole lot less), where the big 3 have it better,is the benefits, Toyota et al don't have Medical Benefits, so unless the Government (being two faced) step up and protect all workers with Health Care then the big 3 should STFU.

Also, isn't it sort of hypocritical of everyone to say..."no more big government and we don't want the Government in our lives so much, yet with hat in hand everyone goes to the Government for either protection or bailouts.

What's going on right now is pure politicking by the republicans, they had their noses wiped in it by the Democrats and Obama and now they are trying to stick it to him and his party, yet they were so ready to bailout AIG and Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac to the tune of almost a Trillion of Tax Payers money with very little strings attached and yet they won't give a paltry 14 Billion to the car industry...can you say "hypocritical"... :breakfast:
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