TheSpec gets political

Where to go for Political chatter and gossip

Postby cemetric » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:44 am

I suppose you are over in Europe, which is a far better place, poltically, than the US at this time. The fact is that americans have not learned from the events that allowed WW2 to happen, thus we have so freely given away our rights and invaded to nations... scary stuff.


Indeed ... It's not only the americans though ... You talked about Israel being the last bastion of National Socialism ... And you're right ... They learned 1 thing from history though ... How to surpress an entire population ...

You know what else gets forgotten? How much the rest of Europe hated the Jews. About how the SS documented how efficiently France, Belgium, and Poland helped them gather up the Jews.


You know .... That's true ... And so would any country that's about to be overrun and destroyed if they wouldn't want to cooperate with an far stronger oppressor ... People do far worse things when they look into the barrel of a gun. And still a very large communty of Jewish people live in Belgium ... But I guess those got left behind, to take care of the diamonds ;)

.C.
Image
User avatar
cemetric
Corporate Spy
 
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:33 pm
Location: Paradise Corrupt

Postby catch » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:45 pm

You know .... That's true ... And so would any country that's about to be overrun and destroyed if they wouldn't want to cooperate with an far stronger oppressor ... People do far worse things when they look into the barrel of a gun.

It is remarkable how much of that history has been scrubbed clean. Seriously, have a look at contemporary works prior to WW2, the Jews were still viewed frequently as "lazy Christ-killers" by Christian Europe.

You can't pull the kind of hatred required to off a people out of thin air. As far as the Jewish genocide is concerned, the blame for that must fall on the entire European mainland.

I find myself in an odd place with my Jewish friends (Yes, I have them), on the one hand they have an excellent community with a strong emphasis on education. on the otherhand it seems impossible to seperate Zionism (which disgusts me) from just plain Jewish (which I have no real feelings about). Speak ill against either and suddenly you are a Nazi.

I don't hate people, just ideologies. :) I suppose I could say the same for Christians and Muslims as this thread started with. Oddly it is ok to attack those ideologies without be called the next Hitler.

cheers,

catch
Proud Nubian Princess
catch
Wankers Cramp - no - its from typing - HONEST
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:49 am

Postby cemetric » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:24 pm

I don't hate people, just ideologies. Smile I suppose I could say the same for Christians and Muslims as this thread started with. Oddly it is ok to attack those ideologies without be called the next Hitler.


I'm kinda the same, everything to do with religions and idolizing a higher being ... Call me an Atheist whatever ... I'm just nog religious ... In the old days in Belgium (but other countries to), whatever a priest told you to do, you did. Because that was the way... Feel the wrath of God if you disregarded advice ... Brainwashing.

In Belgium these days, if you get in an argument with a north-african, and this being just a normal argument, let's say about a dent in the car, before you have spoken ten (10) words, you'll be called a racist. You open your mouth to a north-african and you're a racist. That gets me mad as hell ... They were welcomed in my country, they live of my taxes (a huge precentage of these north-africans live of welfare), they live in our prisons when they do something illegal ... But I'm the racist... They speak their own language, have the freedom to act their own religion and culture... But I'm a racist. If I act in their country like some of them act in mine, I would be death in a few seconds.

People always needed to belong to some group to feel accepted, people are like Bizons ... They like living in a herd. It's a dangerous property of mankind, not to be able to think for him/herself. Lucky there still are some that do.

I'm rambling again ...

Oh ... Talking about Jews, I found this on bash.org
#171987 +(8482)- [X]

<Th3No0b> Im going to be the next hitler
<Th3No0b> Im going to kill all the jews and 1 clown
<RageAgainsttheAmish> why the clown
<Th3No0b> See? no one cares about the jews
<RageAgainsttheAmish> lmao


:mrgreen:

.C.
Image
User avatar
cemetric
Corporate Spy
 
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:33 pm
Location: Paradise Corrupt

Postby Vorlin » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:57 pm

Warning: I'm not against any group of people, whether they're black, white, yellow, green, orange, etc...

I'm in the same boat with you guys...what gets me the most in the US is the number of "minorities" that get their way over everything and immediately throw the racist card around the minute someone different says otherwise. And when you have organizations like Jesse James running around suing every company that doesn't have "blacks" equality, it doesn't help at all. You have all these "blacks" running around screaming equality and saying how JJ is a civil rights leader and helping bring down all the oppression, etc... It's like "uh, you're not getting a cut of that check". No, Martin Luther King was a civil rights leader.

It really does disgust me the amount of people that come over here and because of something that happened 500 years ago, we're supposed to give them freebies. I never understood why blacks are all about equality and screaming racism here and there but yet a VAST majority live in the projects and/or collect welfare. Someone please explain that to me...

In the end, why can't we just live together and not worry about what happened decades ago, etc.. If we went by the mentality of the "africans" and the whole slavery thing, technically, us white americans should be hating everyone in Britain, but we don't. I'm not all hung up on what Edwards Longshanks did or whatever...
In the world of protection, one thing is for sure: security = 1 / convenience.
User avatar
Vorlin
Taz's very own Fireman [RIP]
 
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:48 pm
Location: N. Augusta, SC

Postby Aspman » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:11 am

Wecome to your future gents as the oppressed majority.

It's your own fault for being born a white male heterosexual westerner.

Though I've now declaired myself a racist, sexist, homophobic white supremacist by that last statement and I'll be publicly flogged for charity with running commentary by Abu Hamza on the BBC as he claims compensation for infringement of his religious right to blow people up.
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
- Denis Diderot (1713-1784)
User avatar
Aspman
Frustrated Mad Scientist
 
Posts: 8871
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:07 am
Location: Scotland

Postby Vorlin » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:09 pm

Hah, Asp! I know it sounds that way...but it's like the guy in Shawshank Redemption talking to Morgan Freeman about cooking the books. Morgan said something along the lines of "where'd you learn all that?" and he responded with "I was an honest accountant before...I had to come to jail to learn to be a crook" (or something similar).

I guess my views on a lot of things changed when I got exposed to them a lot more. Growing up in the south, I got to see a ton of welfare. It really changes your opinion on welfare when you're standing in line with ramen noodles and some instant macaroni and the two black women in front of you are wearing full Nike/Adidas outfits with their nails all done, hair all done, jewelry everywhere, 5+ half-clothed kids running around with no shoes, getting beer, steaks, and lottery tickets...and they pay for it with food stamps (this back in the early 90s when the system didn't have checks for that).

Another thing that I like to bring up is this one thought. In the ten years I've been a systems administrator, I have absolutely never met a single solitary black unix systems administrator. I wonder why. Sports can't be the only thing they want to do.

Meh, all I want is everyone to work together to help keep the country together, help keep the PLANET together, and not have wars every 15 years.

Hehe, and to think, none of us had the chance to vote on this stuff when it was brought into policy.
In the world of protection, one thing is for sure: security = 1 / convenience.
User avatar
Vorlin
Taz's very own Fireman [RIP]
 
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:48 pm
Location: N. Augusta, SC

Postby Kwiep » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:00 am

Not too long ago in the Netherlands there was this soap. The minister of justice (I think, I've lost track a bit) said that if the second chamber (dutch senate) voted with a 2/3 majority (needed to change the constitution) to drop all laws and start living by the sharia (muslim law), this should be possible in a democratic nation. Even though it might effectively end the democracy. I agree with him. Some day, even if it's 1000 year in the future, democracy might not be the best thing. The big fuss (alot of dutchys got pissed at the guy) was however that Hitler got chosen democratically. He managed to become dictator in a legal, disregarding some mad intimidation and some assasinations, and democratic way. Alot of people forgot about this.

The key thing from WW2 is that it was a *world* war and the nazi's were ruthless. Altough I agree the holocaust is mentioned alone too often, I think it's the prime example of systematic nationwide genocide by a dictator. Most other deaths by Nazi's are in one way or another military related, for example mass exection of "rebels" or prisoners of war as in Russia. Pre Geneva Conventions, this wasn't something special. Genocide is still not exclusively WW2, but WW2 was the biggest (to the west anyway). WW2 genocide wasn't solely about the jews, but they took the biggest toll. In europe a big reason to mention the jews in that aspect is that during the occupation they were the one's who got the "jew star" tag. No other group had that. I think it's kinda logical it got the attention it got.

That said Israeli politicians are talking holocaust this holocaust that waaay to often. Comparing Iran to Hilter and their plans to the holocaust. In a bit they'll ask Germany to conquer Iran, because they owe em after what happened in WW2. Next thing you know they Iranians ask the Macedonians for help, because they are still hurt from when Alexander the Great conquered them.
Double Dutch
User avatar
Kwiep
Field Marshal Von Uber Tazmaniac
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby catch » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:33 am

He managed to become dictator in a legal, disregarding some mad intimidation and some assasinations, and democratic way. Alot of people forgot about this.

We have a saying in the US... "It is really ridiculous to compare Bush with Hitler... Hitler was elected."

WW2 genocide wasn't solely about the jews, but they took the biggest toll.

Actually, "Communists" took the biggest toll with a good 500,000-1,000,000 more of them dying in concentration camps than Jews, plus the several million or so killed in battle, plus a few more million killed by Stalin during the war. The concentration camp deaths were no more militarily related than the Jews, remember, Hitler began his campaign against terrorism, specifically communist terrorists. He then linked the Jews as financial backers of the communists and from there eventually shifted to full on ethnic-cleansing including the mentally retarded and homosexuals.

The Jews are not even second place, that goes to the Chinese, who were slaughtered wholesale by the Japanese... chemical and biological weapons testing, rape and murder squads, medical testing, etc. If were merely count non-combat deaths at the hands of the enemy, they'd actually have suffered the worst.

In europe a big reason to mention the jews in that aspect is that during the occupation they were the one's who got the "jew star" tag. No other group had that. I think it's kinda logical it got the attention it got.

And again it should be noted that all of Europe hated the Jews before the war. They were viewed as greedy Christ-killers, the synergy this inspired with occupied nations is something that gets glossed over. Forgetting this point is very damaging, it is one thing to polarize the issue. the big bad Nazis dressed in black come and took away the Jews to be killed, but that isn't really something we learn from... but what about trans-cultural hatred that snowballed into genocide, considering the fact that this conversation started about Muslims, I think this is a far more relevant point.

cheers,

catch
Proud Nubian Princess
catch
Wankers Cramp - no - its from typing - HONEST
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:49 am

Postby DaFoxx » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:24 am

We have a saying in the US... "It is really ridiculous to compare Bush with Hitler... Hitler was elected."


now THAT HAS to go into member quotes :)
Beware of Geeks bearing GIF's :mrgreen:
User avatar
DaFoxx
DaBOSS
 
Posts: 8583
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:20 am
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun

Postby Aspman » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:03 pm

<side note> We had an IFA out the other night. He's of Polish origin. He was talking about his father and how he was a refugee during the war. He'd destroyed the plans to a mine and the Nazis were after him becuased of that. He went through a few camps but got out because he wasn't Jewish (his wife was).

The IFA went back to poland to visit some of thie historical sites. When he visited Auschwitz he was fairly disgusted to see some people taking pictures like it was a theme park but even worse there was a gift shop where you could buy Auschwitz T shirts.

'Lest we forget' indeed. :(
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
- Denis Diderot (1713-1784)
User avatar
Aspman
Frustrated Mad Scientist
 
Posts: 8871
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:07 am
Location: Scotland

Postby Shippwreck » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:38 pm

urgghh, thats like when i went to New York and visited the 911 site, there are all these idiots selling photo albums of the day and the moment the planes hit etc... its just disgusting when money is made for personal gain out of a tragedy.

Now on the other hand if the proceeds from the albums were going to some charitable fund for victims of 911, then its slightly less disgusting (only slightly mind) but most of these things are purely for personal gain!


I'm assuming here that the souvenir shop keeps all the money and doesn't donate the profits???
Image
Google is god... of the internet :mrgreen:
User avatar
Shippwreck
I've posted HOW many
 
Posts: 4195
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK

Postby DaFoxx » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:12 pm

I went to Auschwitz when the soviet still held sway

no tourists, but plenty of indoctrination of school kids going on
and the site was in shit order

the soviet didn't go much on restoration / ongoing repair
but there was no tat shops around

in fact there was NOTHING around the site
the town of Auschwitz still stands, but it isn't the best address to put on a german CV

most of Poland was / is in need of redeveloping
and the camps aren't top of anyones keep list

I see them decaying into the earth within one more generation, and there have always been those who refuse to believe it is anything but a soviet plot, and that the germans had NO extermination policy
included in that 'illustrious' group was a very well known author, and to these people th equicker these camps rot away the better

I would prefer them to be kept as a monument to human suffering and hatred

but I can only think of Mauthausen [Austria] that is in 'good' order, and even there people have been stealing souveniers [they have removed the shower heads :shock:

who, in their right mind, wants a gas chamber shower head as a talking point

and the worst camp, both for numbers killed and for brutalliy of the guards was Treblinka, destroyed by the germans, and now totally obliterated from memory except in a few survivors minds, and one or two photo's

[rambling again :mad:]
Beware of Geeks bearing GIF's :mrgreen:
User avatar
DaFoxx
DaBOSS
 
Posts: 8583
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:20 am
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun

Postby catch » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:27 pm

Now on the other hand if the proceeds from the albums were going to some charitable fund for victims of 911

Like the other saying "We'll be rich, rich as a fireman's widow!" (not sure how widespread that one is yet, since as far as I know, I originated it as a spoof of the Simpsons' quote "We'll be rich, rich as Nazis!")

cheers,

catch
Proud Nubian Princess
catch
Wankers Cramp - no - its from typing - HONEST
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:49 am

Postby Shippwreck » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:51 pm

The difference is that the Nazis created the suffering that they profited from... the widows didn't and actually a lot will suffer without the money as a lot will of lost the major wage earner in the house (and thats looking at it purely from a money point of view and not an emotional one)

However, saying that, i do see your point entirely :wink:
Image
Google is god... of the internet :mrgreen:
User avatar
Shippwreck
I've posted HOW many
 
Posts: 4195
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK

Postby Panama Red » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:59 pm

catch wrote:Like the other saying "We'll be rich, rich as a fireman's widow!" (not sure how widespread that one is yet, since as far as I know, I originated it as a spoof of the Simpsons' quote "We'll be rich, rich as Nazis!")

cheers,

catch


I think it's been done... :wink:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Conservative author Ann Coulter sparked a storm on Wednesday after describing a group of September 11 widows who backed the Democratic Party as millionaire "witches" reveling in their status as celebrities.

ADVERTISEMENT

"I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much," Coulter writes in her book "Godless: The Church of Liberalism," published on Tuesday, referring to four women who headed a campaign that resulted in the creation of the September 11 Commission that investigated the hijacked plane attacks.

Coulter wrote that the women were millionaires as a result of compensation settlements and were "reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzis."

A spokeswoman for publisher Crown Forum said it had set a first print run of 1 million copies of "Godless" and there were 1.5 million copies of Coulter's previous four books in print.

The four women, Kristen Breitweiser, Patty Casazza, Mindy Kleinberg and Lorie Van Auken, declined to discuss the book in detail but issued a statement saying they had been slandered.

"There was no joy in watching men that we loved burn alive. There was no happiness in telling our children that their fathers were never coming home again," said the statement signed by the four, along with a fifth woman, Monica Gabrielle.

The four women, who live in or around East Brunswick, New Jersey, became friends after September 11 and formed a group that agitated for the investigation. "Our only motivation ever was to make our nation safer," they said.

Coulter, whose books include the bestseller "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)," argues in the new book the women she dubs "the Witches of East Brunswick" wanted to blame President George W. Bush for not preventing the attacks.

She criticized them for making a campaign advertisement for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry in 2004, and added: "By the way, how do we know their husbands weren't planning to divorce these harpies? Now that their shelf life is dwindling, they'd better hurry up and appear in Playboy."


http://tinyurl.com/yeerm2
Image
User avatar
Panama Red
I come Unseen
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:14 am

PreviousNext

Return to Political Intrigue

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

cron