Leading surveillance societies

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Leading surveillance societies

Postby Aspman » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:36 am

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-545269

The US comes out as a main offender BUT the UK is nearly top trumps pissing on it's citizens to the same level as Russia and China.

Cheers Tony, you c^nt!
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Postby Shippwreck » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:58 am

Yeah i got a mate (different from that other thread) who said to me that he wouldn't want to go to America at the moment for fear of all the surveillance and liberty infringements to the people... i just laughed and said "you really think its any better here!"

I think that the surveillance thing is one of those issues where people look at other countries and go "jeez, they're kept on a tight leash over there, glad my country is as free as it is..." not realising that there country is just as bad, just that they are so used to it they don't notice it!

Recently with all these "nanny state" precautons coming in to place, scenarios in Sci-Fi films that you watch and think "that'll never happen" are actually getting closer than peeps think!
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Postby Egaladeist » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:02 pm

HAH! :D

Looks like Canada ranks only behind Germany...and is the only Country with any category with a rank of 5 :D :P

but...a couple decades ago the RCMP was caught going through people's mail :shock:

I can see why Germany is number one...they've painstakingly taken measures not to repeat their past WW1 and WW2 mistakes.
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Postby Maverick » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:24 pm

I guess it's two-fold for me - while I don't always agree with the actions that the government takes, especially when it comes to invasion of privacy, etc, if you've got nothing to hide, what's the big deal?

Not exactly sure where I stand on that one, but....

Looking at that information, can't say I'm really surprised at what I'm seeing..
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Postby Aspman » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:47 pm

you've got nothing to hide, what's the big deal?


Standard replies to the 'nothing to hide quote' =

Got curtains?
Can I fit a camera in your bedroom/bathroom?
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Postby Shippwreck » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:56 pm

Yeah i don't agree with the "if you got nothing to hide whats the big deal" argument.

EVERYONE has something to hide, no matter how small! Would you want all your movements tracked every minute of every day? The employee that takes an extra 15 min break caught, the person adding 5 min to each time sheet caught. The sysadmin altering logs for a laugh caught (cough dino cough) the person nattering about the boss in the kitchen caught... and those are just tame things, but that could potentially ruin a persons life (ie by loosing job)

I would have to say that i personally have done all of the above at least once (bar the change logs thing) and i would challenge ANYONE of working age that says they haven't. I don't do them regularly but i wouldn't want anyone to know.
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Postby Vorlin » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:02 pm

I definitely don't agree with some of the things that the government is doing in the US. Problem is, here's how it gets passed. Some bill that's guaranteed to be passed on will have riders (think small-print bills) attached and if the bill gets voted and put into play, so does all the other bills. I've NEVER agreed with that. Vote on every single bill accordingly and don't let these bullsh!t riders go into play "unnoticed". And if someone in politics said "You know how much time that would take", I would say "IT'S YOUR FREAKING JOB YOU F@CKING MORON".

Back on topic, like Benjamin Franklin said, "Those that sacrifice freedoms for security deserve neither".

Monitor me at work, fine... Monitor me at stores with CCTV, fine... But start monitoring my email, internet, and inside my house and it'll get very serious very fast.
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Postby Maverick » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:09 pm

Aspman wrote:Standard replies to the 'nothing to hide quote' =

Got curtains?
Can I fit a camera in your bedroom/bathroom?



That's why my thoughts are two-sided.. :mrgreen:

I didn't say I 100% agreed with the "nothing to hide" argument, but I see it's merit - and as you've pointed out, on the other hand, no, I don't want a camera in my bathroom... unless I'm making homemade pr0n.. :shock:
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Postby llama love » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:20 pm

Vorlin wrote:Monitor me at work, fine... Monitor me at stores with CCTV, fine... But start monitoring my email, internet, and inside my house and it'll get very serious very fast.


I think thats pretty much where I stand, unfortunatly its one of those things where there is no happy medium. We need to be more secure but we cant give up our freedom.
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Postby Aspman » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:50 pm

llama love wrote:I think thats pretty much where I stand, unfortunatly its one of those things where there is no happy medium. We need to be more secure but we cant give up our freedom.


I really don't know if that is true.

The IRA were a much greater threat than Muslim extremists and we didn't have all the security panic we have now.

Surveillance seems to be targetted at mostley honest people. Car tax camerat, speed cameras etc won't catch you if you are one of the dodgy little toerags that don't register their cars.

The police will tell you that, you get hit by one of those untaxed, uninsured, unregistered cars and you are shit outta luck. The police won't waste any time on that but they will hound you for smoking a fag in the wrong place, eating at the wheel etc etc.

IT'll be the same with ID cards. Be a criminal and stay out of the system (except for fake cards) and the police will leave you alone coz you're too much bother to chase. Be honest and taxed into the ground for the pleasure of being monitored and then fined for every little thing.

Bah....
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Postby Vorlin » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:38 pm

You know, Asp, you're exactly right. In Florida, it's a Right To Work state as well as one of the very many states that requires (or at least recommends) uninsured motorist insurance.

We have tons of people on the road that are A: driving with revoked licenses, B: driving without insurance, and/or C: driving an unregistered vehicle while being an illegal alien with an expired green card. If I got hit today by one of those 3, MY insurance goes up because of it and yet, they'll get very little. That pisses me off to no end. If one doesn't want to change their living style and such to conform to the country they live in, then why should we (citizen americans) have to put up with their sh@t?

Asp, you live in Scotland. I've visited there a few times and LOVED it. I would completely make sure, as a foreigner, that even when visiting (much less living there), I'd abide by Scotland's laws, nuances, etc. And I know that I'd be viewed differently (just like any other country), but I'd definitely be trying. Here, we have muslims (example only) that come over and the family is on a green card, they dress in their traditional garb, don't learn english, don't try to understand our "system", and then get all kinds of money thrown at them to help them get "on their feet".

Security shouldn't be divided. Either we have it, or we don't. Texas is one of the last states where you can go out on your lawn with a loaded shotgun and tell whoever's in it to get the F off. Florida passed a law a while ago where if you felt threatened, you could pull a gun out and shoot someone (not going into the full bill, just summarizing). What kind of security is that?

Me, I'm an honest person. I pay my taxes, my insurances, my rent, etc...and you're right, Asp, it's targeted to honest people. People who willingly break the law hardly get sh!t served to them. It really makes me think about why I'm honest.
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Postby Panama Red » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:47 pm

Here, we have muslims (example only) that come over and the family is on a green card, they dress in their traditional garb, don't learn english, don't try to understand our "system", and then get all kinds of money thrown at them to help them get "on their feet".


Holy shit, I thought you lived in the states... :lol: that sounds an awful lot like Toronto...

Best bit of advice I heard was, if you run over someone, back up a few times to make sure the job was done, otherwise you are going to pay for life..jk of course... :mad:

Sucks that clowns can get away with this crap and those that pay the taxes get squat...the majority have been silent for too long...we have had a recent string of knifings and swarmings going on here and all the cops are concerned about is setting up roadchecks to make sure your MVI (motor vehicle inspection) sticker is current, otherwise it's a hefty $157.00 fine, in other words if the crime has no monetary reward for the Police budget, then they can't be bothered, but if it's something to do with fines, they can't get enough of them...
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Postby llama love » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:36 pm

Awwww dammit Asp, now you got me thinking :( and your right. Pfff dont get me started on ID cards. It annoys me when people come over and dont even learn the language, especially when you consider the fact the police cant nick someone if they dont understand why they are being nicked :? It really gets to me when people dont respect that different countrys have different ways of doing things. Anyone for some late night speed camera smashing? I am of course joking..being the responsable driver I am :roll:
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Postby Vorlin » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:23 pm

Hehe! I'm all for some of that, llama!

Ever see the movie Annapolis? The part where he says "Ya'll are trying to make me proud! OOORAAAAAHH!

*squad yells "OOOORRAAAHHH!*

He yells again "OOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!"

That's how I feel about things, overall... OOORAAAAAAHHH!!!
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Postby Aspman » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:55 am

Here, we have muslims (example only) that come over and the family is on a green card, they dress in their traditional garb, don't learn english, don't try to understand our "system", and then get all kinds of money thrown at them to help them get "on their feet".


It's the same here. Some immigrants have been here decades and still can't speak English. It's going to provoke a backlash eventually.


llama love wrote:Anyone for some late night speed camera smashing? I am of course joking..being the responsable driver I am :roll:


Even that doesn't fecking work anymore. The picture in the more recent cameras are stored on a hard disk in the concrete base of the camera.

I reckon some thermite could burn the fucker out.
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