How long is long enough?

Where to go for Political chatter and gossip

How long is long enough?

Postby Panama Red » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:59 pm

Now I know for some of these twerps, their current living standards are probably a lot better then what it used to be (3 square meals, toilets, running water, paper/pencils), but just how long does it take for the US Intelligence services to lay charges...?

Five years after the first prisoners arrived at Guantanamo Bay, the detention camp is set for a new phase in the coming months with the start of military tribunals held under a law passed by the US Congress last September.

However, only some 75 of the 395 prisoners there at the moment are likely to face these tribunals, at least in the initial stages. For the rest, there is the prospect of indefinite detention without trial.



5 Yrs is a good chunk of someone's life (Troops losing their's is worse I know), but what are the odds some of these guy's are people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, how do you sort it all out so that the real taliban/terrorists are charged?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6241123.stm
Image
User avatar
Panama Red
I come Unseen
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:14 am

Postby Kwiep » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:28 pm

This just reminds me of this tv series "la femme nikita". How ruthless do you have to be and how many trashed innocent lives are acceptable to enure the safety of the masses.

Purely statistically, not all 400 can be terrorists, leaving out all the political mambojambo of why they haven't been tried yet if they are so sure of their guilt.
Double Dutch
User avatar
Kwiep
Field Marshal Von Uber Tazmaniac
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby Harry » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:07 pm

Pah, hang em anyway, as contriversial as the camp is I can't see the US wasting time, money and manpower interogating people who are 100% innocent? They must be there for a reason however small it may be.

At the moment they are non-us citizens being held under rules that have no relation to the lagal courts.

I suppose that once they have been tried and convicted they they come under either the courts jurastiction and have more rights, or aticles of the Geneva convention will apply to them as the courts they will be tried in are all military, so in effect it will be a form of courts-marshal, which means they will have the rights afforded to military personel being detained by a forigen force, maybe?

Hence they are probably geting all the intel out of them that they can before they shove em up for trial as afterwards they won't be able to use 'coercive' interigation to get anything out of them.


I wonder what would happen if someone like Iran or some small counrty like Portugal had 770 US citizens imprissoned with out a trial..... me thinks the boys in white (UN) would be there in record time....
Drugs have taught an entire generation of kids the metric system..

TAZ's better half: http://www.theadminzone.com/
User avatar
Harry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6784
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:44 pm
Location: UK :-)

Postby Panama Red » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:22 pm

nokia wrote:
I wonder what would happen if someone like Iran or some small counrty like Portugal had 770 US citizens imprissoned with out a trial..... me thinks the boys in white (UN) would be there in record time....


More likely strategic tactical nukedom, the US won't wait for the UN to make a decision, and rightly so...

I understand the need for the CIA types to gather as much info as possible, but how much of this stuff is still relevant, I know Classified/Secret information have stale dates, for that reason alone, so okay they get names of Taliban badboys, how many of them have since had their heads blown off in Afghanistan, who's checking?

What information could these bozo's have that is critical, not even the whereabouts of OBL is valid anymore, even if they knew.

It's slack typical red tape by a military organisation, who can't function properly anymore, the real juicy intel has allready been gathered, if not then they don't know how to interrogate, it shouldn't take 5 yrs, they didn't take this long to hang all the buggers at the Nuremburg trials...

Don't get me wrong, not defending these idiots, just amazed it's taking so long, but then I remember my pay raise in the navy took just as long... :mad:
Image
User avatar
Panama Red
I come Unseen
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:14 am

Postby SirDice » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:22 pm

Dalek wrote:
nokia wrote:I wonder what would happen if someone like Iran or some small counrty like Portugal had 770 US citizens imprissoned with out a trial..... me thinks the boys in white (UN) would be there in record time....


More likely strategic tactical nukedom, the US won't wait for the UN to make a decision, and rightly so...

Why rightly so? What if these US citizens were accused of terrorism? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist you know..

The US signed the Geneva Conventions, they should abide by them.
Oliver's Law:
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
User avatar
SirDice
I've posted HOW many
 
Posts: 4199
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 9:59 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby Panama Red » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:51 pm

SirDice wrote:Why rightly so? What if these US citizens were accused of terrorism? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist you know..

The US signed the Geneva Conventions, they should abide by them.


Do you consider the past record of the UN to be okay enough to trust that they would do the job of extricating these people, how about those nurses and Doctors in Libya, who are about to have their lives taken from them by that person of humanity Kadafi...or the thousands in Kenya or even those in Somalia or Darfur, the list is endless of their failures, and besides I was being facetous... :wink: (about the nukes of course)
Image
User avatar
Panama Red
I come Unseen
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:14 am

Postby Vorlin » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:23 pm

While the US signed the geneva convention, that definitely is old news now. The geneva convention is like the divorce laws of the 50's....old hat and still abided by. I'm not sayin that we need to abide by laws that favor prisoners, but when is enough enough? When is giving prisoners who are muslim and don't care two rats asses about the US prisoners enough but we have to care about theirs just because we're the US?
In the world of protection, one thing is for sure: security = 1 / convenience.
User avatar
Vorlin
Taz's very own Fireman [RIP]
 
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:48 pm
Location: N. Augusta, SC

Postby SirDice » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:55 pm

The UN might make mistakes but it's all we got.. If every country applies their own laws onto others we're back to square 1.

Someone please explain to me why I should abide by US laws when I'm a Dutch[*] citizen governed by my own Dutch[*] law. Those are the ones I abide by, if I don't like it I can vote, if that doesn't help I can always migrate. Heck, things going as they are now I might even declare my own republic.

[*] Replace with a country of your choice.
Oliver's Law:
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
User avatar
SirDice
I've posted HOW many
 
Posts: 4199
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 9:59 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby Kwiep » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:52 pm

Vorlin wrote:When is giving prisoners who are muslim and don't care two rats asses about the US prisoners enough but we have to care about theirs just because we're the US?


Not because you're the US no. It's called moral high ground. As long as US soldiers don't fall to raping skinning and hanging entire villages of people you can in fact justify most of your military operations, not only to your own people, but to all like minded people starting with US-allies, but basically all non-enemies.
Double Dutch
User avatar
Kwiep
Field Marshal Von Uber Tazmaniac
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: The Netherlands


Return to Political Intrigue

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests