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Okay, so I probably missed where this is supposed to go... Anyway, I'm putting it here!

I'm reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail right now. Just started it last night. As some of you probably know, and maybe some of you don't, the authors of this book just attempted to sue Dan Brown for "ripping off" their idea for The DaVinci Code. It's a non-fiction book. I won't say it's neccesarily fact, but they are the ones who, I guess, originally put forth the idea that the Holy Grail was Mary Magdalene and that Jesus was married and had children.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone else has read it, or would be interested in picking it up and reading it with me. I bought my copy at Wal-Mart for less than $6.

I was fairly disappointed in The DaVinci Code personally...it was a good, light read, and I enjoyed it for what it was worth...but not really worthy of all the build-up and hype. Doubt I'll see the movie.

Hi Debs,

I heard about all this but haven't paid much attention to it so I really don't know what it's about except the plagerism part.

Eg

I was tempted to pick it up at Costco last night, but I just don't have the time right now to start another book. I am familiar with the ideas and where the "evidence" is supposed to come from, as well as some of the gnostic and coptic texts that supposedly support the viewpoint. I read the Code (and Angels and Demons, which I liked better).

I'd be happy to discuss and expand on any topics or questions you want to pose about the book here.

Very cool Rapier!

I didn't make it very far last night, unfortunately all those dates and unpronounceable French names started to run together fairly quickly. I can see it's going to be a book I have to read sitting up, not laying in bed!

I liked Angels and Demons MUCH better too, for the record.

Hi rapier,

If this evidence is supported by the gnostic manuscripts i'd be interested in what this is about...I've read the gnostic texts and I suspect it's just more of the same ole' same ole' ...people interpreting text to support theory disguised as fact.

Eg

Not sure what you're actually saying Eg (not the first time!) but in the preface of the book, they're very clear about it being a theory, about it not neccesarily being true, but it could have happened. Basically what they seemed to be saying was that while no one is likely to come up with definative proof of what actually did happen 2000 years ago, based on texts they've found and relating those texts and the things we actually do know, based on fact and not tradition, that anything really could have happened.

I like it, because they seem to essentially be putting it out there and saying "Okay, now you make of it what you will" rather than shoving it down my throat as absolute fact that any idiot could see if they just had eyes to look with. Granted, I'm not completely out of chapter 1 yet!

Hi Debs,

Well...at least they admit it to be theory right off...that's a good sign...because the majority of the gnostic manuscripts are more difficult to interpret than canonical scripture...the reason being they have gone through fewer changes and translations and are pretty much in their original state.

Eg

Yes, they seem to be very adament that you understand it's a theory, and not being misunderstood about that point.

It struck me because that's the way I tend to look at things...Well, I probably won't ever know the whole truth, but that seems like as good a theory as the next guys!

And it's a fascinating thought to me that there may be some guy living in anonymity in France who is a direct descendant of Christ. No wonder those French people are so snobby!

The manuscript ' Q ' is older than all the gospels...

[Q 3:0 Incipit]

<<words>> [<Jesus>] <<transition to John>>

Q 3:2b ... John...

Q 3:3 ... all the region of the Jordan ...

Q 3:7 He said to the [crowds] who came to hi[s] bapti[sm], Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Q 3:8 Bear fruit worthy of repentance, and do not presume to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham!

Q 3:9 Even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore not bearing good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Q 3:16bI baptize you with water, but the one coming after me is stronger than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to remove; he will baptize you with holy spirit and fire;

Q 3:17 whose winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather the wheat into his granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.

<<Q 3:21-22>> <<Jesus . . . John . . . baptized . . . heaven . . . opened 3:22 . . . spirit . . . upon him . . . son . . .>>

Q 4:1-2 And Jesus was led [by] the spirit into the wilderness 4:2 to be tempted by the devil. And [he ate nothing] for forty days; .. he was hungry.

Q 4:3 And the devil said to him, If you are the son of God, command the[se] stone[s] to become [] loa[ves].

Q 4:4 And Jesus answered, It is written, A person does not live by bread alone.

Q 4:9 [The devil] took him to <<Jerusalem>> and put him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, If you are the son of God, throw yourself down [].

Q 4:10 For it is written, He will command his angels concerning you,

Q 4:11 and On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

Q 4:12 And Jesus answered him, [] It is written, You shall not test the Lord your God.

Q 4:5-7 And [the devil] took him to a [very high] mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor, 4:6 and said to him [], All these I will give you, 4:7 if you worship me.

Q 4:8 And Jesus said to him, [] It is written, Worship the Lord your God, and only serve him.

Q 4:13 And [] the devil left him.

Q 4:16 [... Nazara ...]

Q 6:20 And [lift]ing his [eyes to] his disciples he said: Blessed are the poor, for [yours] is the kingdom of God.

Q 6:21 Blessed are the hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are the [weep]ing, for you will laugh.

Q 6:22 Blessed are you .. when they revile you and they ... and they ... you... evil on account of the son of man.

Q 6:23 Rejoice and [be glad], for your pay is great in heaven, for so they did to the prophets [before you].

Q 6:27-28.. [] Love your enemies 6:28 [and] pray for those who [abuse] you.

Q 6:29 <<To whoever>> hits you on the cheek [] , turn the other also, and <<from the one taking>>your coat <<do not withhold>> even your shirt.

?QMatt 5:41?/Q 6:29<-->30 ..

Q 6:30 Give to the one who begs from you and [][from the one borrowing] do not [ask back] .. .

Q 6:31 And as you wish that people would do to you, do so to them.

Q 6:32 ... if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors ... ?

Q 6:33/34 And [] if you ... your brothers,[what <reward do> you <have>]? Do not even the [Gentiles] do the same?

Q 6:35 ... you <<will be>> sons <<the deity>>because he raises his sun on the evil and on the ... and rains ... .

Q 6:36 Be merciful as .. your father is merciful.

Q 6:37-38 And judge not ... you will not be judged; [for with the judgment you judge you will be judged, 6:38 and with] the measure you measure will it be measured to you.

Q 6:39 Can a blind person lead a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit?

Q 6:40 A disciple is not above his teacher, [but everyone, when well trained,] will be like his teacher.

Q 6:41 Why do you seek the speck that is in your brother's eye, but the log in your eye you do not notice?

Q 6:42 How [can you say] to your brother: Let me remove the speck from your eye, and behold, there is a log in your eye? Hypocrite! Remove first from your eye the log, and then you will see clearly to cast out the speck ... the eye of your brother.

Q 6:43 [] There is no sound tree which bears bad fruit, nor again an unsound tree which bears good fruit.

Q 6:44 For the tree is known by its fruit. Are figs gathered from thorns, or grapes from a bramble bush?

Q 6:45 The good person [brings forth] good things from the good treasure. But the evil one [brings forth] evil things from the evil <<treasure>>. For from an abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Q 6:46 Why do you [call] me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?

Q 6:47 Everyone who hears my words and does them

Q 6:48 is like a person who built <<a>> house on the rock. And <<the rain came down>> and the stream fell against that house, and it [did] not [fall], for it had been founded on the rock.

Q 6:49 And [everyone] who hears [my words] and does not do [them] is like a man who built <<a>> house on the sand. And <<the rain came down>> and .. the stream .. .. [beat upon] that house, and immediately it fell, and its [fall] was great.

Q 7:1 ... he ended [these] sayings, he entered Capharnaum.

Q 7:2-4 A centurion came to him, appealing to him and saying, My boy [is sick] .. . And he said to him, I will come and heal him.

Q 7:6 The centurion answered him, Lord I am not worthy for you to come under my roof;

Q 7:7 but only say the word, and my boy [will be] healed.

Q 7:8 For I am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, Go, and he goes, and to another, Come, and he comes, and to my slave, Do this, and he does it.

Q 7:9 When Jesus heard him, he was amazed, and said to [those who] followed, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.

Q 7:10 <...>

Q 7:18-19 And John .. [] .. 7:19 sent through his disciples<<and said>> to him, Are you the coming one, or should we expect another?

Q 7:22 And [he] answered and said to them, Go and tell John what you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk, lepers are made clean and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, and the poor are given good news.

Q 7:23 And blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.

Q 7:24 And after they went away, he began to speak to the crowds about John: What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?

Q 7:25 But what did you go out to see? A person dressed in soft things? Behold, those who wear soft things are in kings' houses.

Q 7:26 Why then did you go out? To see a prophet? Indeed, I tell you, even more than a prophet.

Q 7:27 This is he about whom it has been written, Behold, I am sending my messenger in front of you, who will prepare your way before you.

Q 7:28 [] I tell you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John; but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

?Q 7:29-30?

Q 7:31 .. To what shall I compare this generation? And what is it like?

Q 7:32 It is like children sitting in a market place, who calling to <<others>> say, We fluted for you and you did not dance; we wailed and you did not<<mourn>>.

Q 7:33 For John came not eating or drinking and you say, He has a demon.

Q 7:34 The son of man came eating and drinking and you say, Look, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.

Q 7:35 But wisdom is justified by her children.

Q 9:57 And someone said to him, [ ] I will follow you wherever you go.

Q 9:58 And Jesus said to him, Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

Q 9:59-60 And another said to him, Lord, let me first go and bury my father. 9:60 But he said to him, Follow me, [and] leave the dead to bury their own dead.

Q 10:2 <.. [he said>] .. , The harvest is fruitful, but the laborers are few. Pray, therefore, the lord of the harvest that he send laborers to his harvest.

Q 10:3 [Go!] Behold, I send you as <<lambs>> among wolves.

Q 10:4 Do not [carry money, nor bag], nor sandals, [nor staff,] .. [do not greet anyone] .. .

Q 10:5 Whatever house you enter, [say, Peace] .. !

Q 10:6 And if a son of peace is there, [let] your peace [come] upon him; but if not, [let] it [return] <<to>> you.

[Q 10:7-8] [ <<Eat>> [what they provide], for the worker deserves his reward. 10:8 And whenever you enter a town <<...>>. ]

Q 10:9 Heal [the] sick [among them] and say [to them], The kingdom of God has come near to you.

Q 10:10 [But whenever you enter a town and] they do not receive you, as you go [out of that town],

Q 10:11 shake off the dust from you feet.

Q 10:12 I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on [the] day .. for Sodom than for that town.

Q 10:13 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, [] in sackcloth and ashes.

Q 10:14 But it shall be more tolerable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you.

Q 10:15 And you, Capharnaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.

Q 10:16 Whoever receives you receives me, [and] whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.

Q 10:21 At <<some time>> he said, I thank you father, lord of heaven and earth, for you hid these things from the sages and learned, and disclosed them to babes. Yes, father, for such was your gracious will.

Q 10:22 Everything has been handed over to me by my father and nobody knows the son except the father [nor] .. the father except the son and any one to whom the son wishes to reveal him.

Q 10:23 Blessed are the eyes which see what you see.

Q 10:24 For truly I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Q 11:2 <...> pray, Father, let your name be sanctified; let your kingdom come.

Q 11:3 Our day's bread give us today;

Q 11:4 and pardon us our debts as we too have pardoned those in debt to us; and do not bring us to a test.

Q 11:9 I tell you, ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.

Q 11:10 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Q 11:11-12 What person of you, if his son asks for a loaf of bread, will give him a stone, or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?

Q 11:13 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the father from heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Q 11:14 And he [<>] cast[<>] out a dumb demon. And when the demon was cast out, the dumb person spoke. And the crowds were amazed.

Q 11:15 But some [] said, By Beelzebul, the ruler of demons, he casts out demons.

[Q 11:16] [But others [] were seeking [from heaven] a sign [].]

Q 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a house [divided against itself will not stand].

Q 11:18 And if Satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.

Q 11:19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.

Q 11:20 But if by the finger of God I cast out demons, then upon you the kingdom of God has come.

[<<Q 11:21>>] <<When the strong one, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are in peace.>>]

[<<Q 11:22>>] [<<But when one stronger than he .. conquers him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoil.>>]

Q 11:23 The one who is not with me is against me, and the one who does not gather with me scatters.

Q 11:24 When an unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest and finds none. [Then] it says, I will return to my house from which I came.

Q 11:25 And on coming it finds it swept and put in order.

Q 11:26 Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that person becomes worse than the first.

?Q 11:27? ..

?Q 11:28? ..

Q 11:29 But [he said], This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah.

Q 11:30 For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so [also] shall the son of man be to this generation.

Q 11:31 The queen of the south will be raised at the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

Q 11:32 The men of Nineveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Q 11:33 No one light<s> a lamp and puts it under a basket, but on a lampstand, ... .

Q 11:34 The lamp of the body is the eye; when your eye is sound, your whole body [is] bright; but when your eye is bad, your whole body [] is dark.

Q 11:35 If, then, the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

[Q 11:36] [<<The wholly luminous body's brightness is like a lamp giving light with its rays.>>]

Q 11:39a And [he said] [],

Q 11:42 But woe to you Pharisees, for you tithe mint and [dill] and [cummin], and neglect justice and the love of God; but these things you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

Q 11:39b Woe to you Pharisees, for you cleanse the outside of the cup and the dish, but the inside is full from grasping and lack of self-control.

Q 11:40 ... Did not he who made the outside make the inside also?

Q 11:41 <..>

Q 11:43 Woe to you, Pharisees, for [<you> love] the best seat in the synagogues and salutations in the market places.

Q 11:44 Woe to you, for you [are like graves which are not seen], and people walking over them do not know it.

Q 11:46 Woe to you [<Pharisees>], for [you load] people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves with [] your finger[] do not <<move>> them.

Q 11:47 Woe to you, for you build the memorials of the prophets, but your fathers killed them.

Q 11:48 [So you are] witness[es] and you <<consent to>> the <<deeds>> of your fathers; for [they killed them, and] you [build].

Q 11:49 Therefore also Wisdom .. said, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,

Q 11:50 [so that] the blood of all the prophets which has been shed from the foundation of the world may be required from this generation,

Q 11:51 from [] Abel's blood to [] Zechariah's blood, who perished between the altar and the house. Yes, I tell you, it will be required[from] this generation.

Q 11:52 Woe to you [Pharisees], for you have [lifted] the [key of knowledge] []; [] you [did] not [enter, nor permit to enter] those who were trying to enter.

Q 12:2 Nothing is covered which will not be revealed and hidden which will not be made known.

Q 12:3 What I tell you in the darkness speak in the light, and what you hear in your ear proclaim upon the housetops.

Q 12:4 And do not fear those who kill the body but are not able [to kill the soul].

Q 12:5 Fear ... the one who ... <<in>> Gehenna.

Q 12:6 Are not [five] sparrows sold for two cents? And one of them will not fall to earth without God.

Q 12:7 <<But>> even the hairs of your head all have been numbered. Do not fear, you are worth more than many sparrows.

Q 12:8 Every one who acknowledges me before men,... also will acknowledge before ... ;

Q 12:9 but whoever denies me before men, ... will .. deny before ... .

Q 12:10 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever [blasphemes] against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

[Q 12:11] [When they [bring] you [<<before>> synagogues], do not be anxious how or what you are to [say];

[Q 12:12] For <<...>> [will teach] you in that hour what you are to [say].]

Q 12:22 Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about .. life, what you shall eat, nor about ... body, what you shall put on.

Q 12:23 Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Q 12:24 [Look at] the ravens; they neither sow nor reap nor <<gather into barns>>, and yet God feeds them. Are you not of more value than the birds?

Q 12:25 And who of you by being anxious is able to add to his life-span ... cubit?

Q 12:26 And why are you anxious about clothing?

Q 12:27 Consider the lilies, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Q 12:28 But if the grass in the field, which is there today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, God clothes thus, [will he not] much more clothe you, oh persons of little faith!

Q 12:29 [Therefore] do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? <<or>> What shall we drink? <<or>> What shall we wear?

Q 12:30 For the Gentiles seek all these things; [for] your Father knows that you need them.

Q 12:31 But seek his kingdom, and these things shall be yours as well.

[QMatt 6:19]/Q 12:32<<33 <<[Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where robbers break in and steal,]>>

Q 12:33 [but] lay up [for yourselves] treasure.. []in .. heavens, where [neither] moth [nor rust ruins and where] no robber.. [dig.. through and steal..].

Q 12:34 For where [your] treasure is, there will [your] heart be also.

Q 12:39 But know this, that if the house owner had known in which watch the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be dug into.

Q 12:40 You also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Q 12:42 Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom the lord put over his household to give [them] <<the food>> on time?

Q 12:43 Blessed is that servant whom the lord, when he comes, will find so doing.

Q 12:44 Truly, I tell you that he will appoint him over all his possessions.

Q 12:45 But if that servant says in his heart, My lord is delayed [], and begins to beat <<the servants>> and [to] eat and [to] drink [and get drunk],

Q 12:46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect and at an hour that he does not know and will cut him to pieces and give him an inheritance with the faithless.

?Q 12:49? ..

Q 12:51 ... think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Q 12:53 For I have come to separate [son] from [] father, [] and daughter from her mother, and daughter-in-law from her mother-in-law. []

[Q 12:54-55] [ [When it is evening] you say, [Good weather, for the sky is red, 12:55 and in the morning, Today will be stormy, for the sky is loweringly red.]

[Q 12:56] [] You know how [to judge] the appearance [] of the sky, but you [cannot judge] the times?]

Q 12:58 [While] you are with your opponent [] on the way make an effort to be released from him [], lest [the plaintiff] hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.

Q 12:59 [] I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

Q 13:18 <<he said>>, What is the kingdom of God like, and to what shall I compare it?

Q 13:19 It is like a seed of mustard which a man took and threw into his garden. And it grew and became a tree, and the birds of heaven nested in its branches.

Q 13:20 And again he said, To what shall I compare the kingdom of God?

Q 13:21 It is like leaven which a woman took and hid in three measures of flour until it leavened the whole.

Q 13:24 Enter through the narrow [door] for many [will seek to] enter and few <<<will find it>>>.

Q 13:25 When the householder has [locked] the door[and you begin .. to knock], .. saying, Lord, open for us, and he will answer you, I do not know you [].

Q 13:26 [Then you will start saying,] We ate and drank [with you], and [you taught in our streets].

Q 13:27 And he will say [to you], I do not know you .. .<<Away>> from me, evil<<doers>>.

Q 13:29,28 [Many] shall come from the east and the west and recline 13:28 with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of God, but [you] <<will be>> thrown out; there people will weep and gnash their teeth.

[Q 13:30] [.. .. last .. will be first, and .. .. first .. will be last.]

Q 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to you! How often did I want to gather your children together as a hen [gathers] her [nestlings] under her wings, and you did not want to.

Q 13:35 See, your house is forsaken. ... I tell you, you will not see me until [it comes when] you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!

[Q 14:5] And he said to them, Which [] [will there be] among you who will have [] an ox, and if it fall on the Sabbath into a [pit], <<will>> not <<extricate>> it?

Q 14:11 Everyone who exalts oneself will be humbled, and the one who humbles oneself will be exalted.

Q 14:16 [And he] said [to them, The kingdom of God] <<is like>> a man [who] made a great banquet.

Q 14:17 And he sent his servant .. to say to the invited: Come, for it is now ready.

Q 14:18 <<They all began to make excuses.>> ... <<said, I have bought >> field ...

Q 14:19 ... <<said, I have bought >> ...

Q 14:20 ... <<said, I married>> ...

Q 14:21 And [upon returning] the servant announced these things to his master. Then the householder[,] enraged[,] said to his servant, Go out [quickly] into the [streets] and [whomever you may find], invite <<to the occasion>>.

Q 14:23 And after going out into the streets the servant<> [gathered all whom he found] []; [and] the house was filled. <..>

Q 14:26 [If anyone] does not hate his [own] father and mother[, <he can>not <be> my <disciple>;] and [<if anyone does not hate> son and daughter], he cannot be my disciple.

Q 14:27 He who does not take his [] cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Q 17:33 The [one who finds] his life will lose it, and the [one who] loses his life [for my sake] will [find] it.

Q 14:34 Salt [is good]; but if salt becomes insipid, with what will it be <<seasoned>>?

Q 14:35 It is fit neither for the land nor for the dungheap; they throw it out.

Q 15:4 Which one of you, having a hundred sheep, if [he has lost] one of them, [will] not leave the ninety-nine <<at the place they are>> and go [after] the [one which is lost], until he finds it?

Q 15:7 [] Just so, I tell you, in heaven he rejoices over [it] more than over [the] ninety-nine.

<<Q 15:8-10 in Q at a {D} rating>>

Q 16:13 No [one] can serve two masters; for either one will hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Q 16:16 The law and [] the prophets ... until John. From [then] the kingdom of God has suffered violence and the violent take it by force.

Q 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for [] one stroke of the law to <<lose its force>>.

Q 16:18 Everyone who divorces his wife [] commit[s] adultery, and the one who marries a divorcée, [] commits adultery.

Q 17:1 <..> It is necessary that scandals come, but woe to the one through whom they come.

Q 17:2 It is better for him [if] a millstone is put around his neck and he is thrown into the [] sea than that he should lead astray one of these little ones.

Q 17:3 If your brother sins, warn him, and if [he listens to you, forgive him].

Q 17:4 And if seven times a day he should sin against you, seven times also forgive him.

Q 17:6 If you have faith like a mustard seed you could say to this sycamine tree, Be uprooted and be planted in the sea; and it would obey you.

?Q 17:20? ..

?Q 17:21? ..

Q 17:23 <<And if they>> say.. to you, Look, [he is in the wilderness], do not go out; Look, [he is in the inner rooms], do not follow them.

Q 17:24 For as the lightning comes [from the east] and [shines as far as the west], thus will be the [<day>] of the Son of man.

Q 17:37 Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Q 17:26 [For as were] the days of Noah, so will it also be [in the days] of the Son of man.

Q 17:27 [They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage], until the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took them all.

Q 17:30 So will it also be [on the day the] Son of man [is revealed].

Q 17:34 [I tell you,] there will be two on one couch; one is taken and one is left.

Q 17:35 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.

Q 19:12 .. a person [going on a journey]

Q 19:13 called his servants and gave them <<money>>.

Q 19:15 [after a long time the master] of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

Q 19:16 [And] the [first] <<came>> saying, Master, [your <<money>> has made ten times more].

Q 19:17 And he said to him, Well done, good [] servant, .. you have been faithful <<in a little bit>>, I will set you over much.

Q 19:18 And the [second] came saying, Master, <<with your money I made more money>>.

Q 19:19 And he said to him [], [and] you I will set over much.

Q 19:20-21 And [another] came saying, Master, [I knew] you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 19:21 [so] I [was] afraid, and [I went and hid] your <<money>> in [the ground]. Here [you have what is yours].

Q 19:22 He said to him, You wicked servant! You knew that [] I reap where I have not sowed, and gathered where I have not winnowed?

Q 19:23 [Why then did you not put] my money [into the] bank[]? And at my coming I should have received [what was my own] with interest.

Q 19:24 Take .. <<the money>> from him and give it to him who has the ten <<units of money>>.

Q 19:26 .. To everyone who has will more be given; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

?Q 19:27? <<..>>

Q 22:28 .. You [] who have [followed me]

Q 22:30 in the [kingdom] <..> [] you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

and the gospels is assumed to be copied/borrowed from ' Q '

My head hurts

It is generally believed that the gospels borrowed from ' Q ' and then linked everything together into a story with additions not found in ' Q '

Sorry to make yer head hurt nokia

Well, thank god I'm not the only one!

From memory, that seems to be the beginning of the gospel of John?

What is interesting to me is the number of manuscripts that have apparently been found that could have easily been included into the "Gospels", but for whatever reason, have been judged by the Vatican (???) as inappropriate.

Much of the original manuscripts were written on inferior paper that poor early followers could afford and disappeared naturally through decay...others were destroyed by Ireaneus in about 150-180AD in his bid to have one church...his...which would be called eventually catholic.

Much was later excluded during the bishop's conference in 300AD where the bishop's decided on final canon.

Someone please delete the last 3 posts. I really only needed it posted once, but since I'm too stupid to realize that I should check and see if the post it says wasn't posted was actually posted or not, I seem to have gotten carried away!

I just thought you really...really...really...really...really...really...really...wanted to get your point across LOL!